# Embody Your Power Podcast - Episode 26 Loch Kelly Interview on Embodied Awakening
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[00:00:02] hi I'm Danielle Karen and in this podcast I'm going to share with you knowledge and tools that I believe should be accessible to everyone they're fundamental and essential to Being Human embody your power is an integrative model that Bridges science spirituality and ancient wisdom to give you the resources needed to live your fullest potential as a psychotherapist for over 16 years and now as a coach I help people know reclaim and embody their power on all levels it's my mission to help you connect to your unshakable resilience to know true power and freedom to be Sovereign and to remember your divine nature if you're wanting to learn tools to release layers of conditioning heal from trauma feel at home in your body have inner peace expand your capacity for Joy connect spiritually and take a

[00:01:06] journey with me to embody your power then this podcast is for you thank you for joining me together let's raise our Consciousness to help evolve [Music] Humanity welcome to the embody your power podcast I hope you enjoy this interview with Lo Kelly as it's insightful in a very unique perspective on ifs Consciousness and spirituality lock Kelly is the creator of the new mindful glimpses app he's an award-winning author of two books he's a licensed psychotherapist and he's a leader in the field of meditation and embodied Awakening he's the founder of the nonprofit effortless mindfulness Institute and has co-taught workshops with the founder of ifs dick Schwarz on accessing cell he's collaborated with neuroscientists at Yale upen and NYU in a study on how awareness training can

[00:02:11] enhance compassion and well-being lock is known for his warm sense of humor and his ability to directly introduce people to their awake nature as a source of healing he offers online advanced classes on ifs and effortless mindfulness training you can find him at lock kelly.org that's l c ke L y.org welcome to the embod your power podcast lock I'm super excited to dive into a stimulating conversation with you thank you so much so great to be with you here yeah so we met in 2017 at a retreat in Italy that you were co-leading with dick Schwarz on ifs in spirituality which was tremendously transformative for me and one of the exercises that you had us do was very profound in my journey it was awareness being aware of itself which we're gonna dive into more in our um conversation here but I wanted to first

[00:03:16] start with my podcast is called embody your power because I'd like to support people in embodying their power in all ways especially type of power that no one can take from us which I believe one of the aspects of that is really knowing the truth about who we are yes lo I think your work really helps people know and experience that and I wonder if you can share how your work does that yeah so bring both those themes together which is the the power that no one can take away and your experience of this awareness of awareness so you know I was fortunate enough to study both psychology and get a fellowship to go to India Sri Lanka and Nepal where I spent some time with kind of indepth advanced yet simple meditation and the real turning point in this particular what's called direct practice meditation that I'm calling effortless mindfulness now

[00:04:21] is recognizing that who we are is not our thoughts or our age or our personality or our particularities even our thoughts or our history or our memory but essentially is this which people have called being or Spirit or Essence or what they call awake awareness which is a kind of intelligence or nature of mind that's prior to thought that arises as our thought as kind of symbols that we use to label things but the key is that we're that belief we have I think therefore I am is not who we are that thinking in Buddhism is uh considered the sixth sense that appears to this awake Consciousness and so discovering that which can't be hurt

[00:05:28] which can't have its power taken away which is free of worry or anxiety free of Shame and yet has this loving unconditional presence that is with the parts of us that have shame worry or fear so this is the power and The Liberation and also the fullness that doesn't just use meditation to escape but similar to IFS therapy steps out of our parts-based view our small separate self and asks for some space and then finds this compassionate self that we are that can be with ourselves and which can speak and relate and create in the world with others thank you for that description yeah and so is awake awareness Sy synonymous with

[00:06:31] Consciousness yeah I I distinguish it in a way in that a wake awareness is is pure awareness prior to any um mixing with a type of Consciousness so there is this experience which it sounds like you had which is quite unusual and because when we experience awareness of awareness it feels just like a gap or Freedom or like ah and we don't take it to be what we're aware of and where we're aware from we just it opens us to uh connection and then we focus on the feeling of Love or Joy or Freedom or connection and we don't realize the source is this awareness so this awareness has no contents and and as soon as it mingles with any pattern so you could say

[00:07:35] there's awake awareness and seeing is eye Consciousness then there's hearing Consciousness there's thinking Consciousness there's Parts based Consciousness there's ego manager Consciousness which has self Essence which is synonymous with awake awareness and then self energy would be Consciousness would be self that is conscious because it has now energy it's awareness plus aliveness so there's a there's a Consciousness that then has qualities to it if that makes sense but but often I love the Brilliance that you bring lock because you're able to Define and delineate these very subtle shifts in awareness and Consciousness and that's really helpful I don't know a lot of other people doing that so I really appreciate you defining and and helping

[00:08:38] us really start to get the subtleties of it yeah and it's all experiential it's you know it's not meant to be philosophical or or intellectual or uh mental it actually is just using thinking Consciousness as a way to discriminate from experience and give it some common uh pointer so it's really like pointing at the moon it's not the finger it's not the word it's the Moon that and and when we point within it's not the philosophical idea that there's pure awareness it's the feeling and the way to let go or Surrender or open or drop into that which is already here and that's really the most amazing thing is this awake awareness which is considered in these contemplative

[00:09:41] Traditions to be the you know most valued human Dimension is equally available within each of us and that's the similar premise to Dick Schwarz and ifs that this self you can call it self with a capital f or Buddhism they use they use it mind nature of mind so mind which is more The Knowing quality or self which is the identity quality or awareness which is the little bit you know transpersonal then come and connect to the personal and they they are the foundation that is felt and when that shift happens it literally is like a developmental shift in Consciousness it becomes moves toward what ifs called self- leadership so it's not just a meditation state or an

[00:10:43] esoteric experience or Peak State uh it's literally becomes The New Normal how wonderful is that yeah so L how did you get here were there can you share any experiences or Awakening that really had an impact in your life yeah I mean there's a bunch of them you know and and you kind of don't or I don't realize them didn't realize them until I looked back and had a few others later and then I was like oh maybe that's what that was I thought that was just this weird thing that happened you know and then you go back to child and go all right oh yeah right now I have a category you know when I had some childhood you know opening and connections and that led me to feel that something's going on that's quite extraordinary so I could share one one kind of well share two one is kind of a funny one fun one which is that um when

[00:11:48] I was playing sports I I could enter this Flow State which was kind of dropping out of the thinking mind into an embodied connected way of being which now is what I consider kind of an essential quality of of awake loving flow which is self- leadership so it's similar because it's optimally functioning but not self not referencing thoughts and being a thinker but it's really embodied and open eyed and yet so connected and Blissful and and functioning in a way that you're you know really optimal So I listened to this guy on TV who was talking about football and he said oh the this quarterback has eyes in the back of his head and I thought oh wait a minute it's not like he can see it it's that you open oh that's what I do I open my awareness around and then it drops me into my body and then it's as if there's a

[00:12:54] panoramic feeling but it's not really visual it's a it's a field of awareness Ness that is open and connected and then I thought oh let me see if I can do that intentionally so I started to create this way of looking up opening my awareness up dropping around and I would do it when I played Sports and then I remember one time I one of my fellow classmates came up man that was great how did you do it and I said you really want to know well I open my wiress up I drop it down and and he was like like huh oh cool man and and then another uh another guy was a couple years older had overheard me and he came the next practice and threw this book at me he said here kid read this and it was xan in the art of archery and so that was the first time I read this book and I was going like oh there's people who talk about this and value it and it's not just weird and that led me to

[00:13:59] start to kind of explore the different kinds of meditation and and my own experience really because that's where it started how validating it sounds like to read that book at that time in your life yeah yeah and the awareness piece that I was having this U memory I I think it was in my early 20s and I studied with this guy named Tom Brown Jor have you ever heard of this guy he's like this master tracker he goes into the woods and CS animals and people but he was saying you have to have this vision and he had a name for it but where you really open your perception and you're not focused on one thing you you really open it up and by doing that and walking in the woods kind of slowly you're way more aware of what's going on around you yeah very similar yeah that's kind of uh I call it panoramic awareness and unity Consciousness so it it really is Unity mind once you and it I I feel like it it's all Al what's described as connecting left brain and right brain

[00:15:03] because left brain can discriminate and parize and right brain kind of feels like it it connects in a wider way so when you have both going on it it feels balanced it almost feels like there's a seamless field and you feel supported so it's not just going out to see things it's as if there's a h a receiving of some support from something greater than yourself beautiful I I want to get back into that and before I do I do want to have you just uh outline kind of the basic way that you would describe self parts and Consciousness and perhaps you have a different way to describe it and Define it than dick Schwarz How would how would you define these terms yeah and and maybe I'll say I'll share one more experience that relate so then yeah that it kind of brings in kind of this emotional quality so there's kind of a you know this

[00:16:07] Transcendent quality that has this you know embodied but then um when I was a sophomore in college I had a series of losses so my best friend from college died in a car accident then my father developed brain cancer and passed away within 6 months then my grandmother mother was 99 years old passed away and I was you know going through this kind of grief and I was you know sophomore in college so my friends just hadn't been through that so I try to talk to them and they like oh sorry man you know let's go have a beer you know I that's about the best I could do so I'm walking out of the library on a kind of a beautiful winter night and I just feel this grief I've been trying to deal with it and talk it couldn't quite and all of a sudden this I heard this voice that said I don't know if you can take this much longer and now I kind of understand

[00:17:10] it to be a part of me that said that and I but I kind of looked back I was like well because it wasn't wasn't someone else it was like but it seemed to be coming from like right here so I was like I kind of looked up and as I looked up my awareness kind of went right through it into the night sky and so I just went oh and then I just felt kind of similar to that panoramic awareness except now it was opened me up to connect to this you know CH crystal clear night sky that was so beautiful such beauty and love and and tenderness and it just it just kind of started to melt and be with this part that felt defeated and with my whole body body and all this grief just went oh and I started crying and laughing and and feeling like oh my God what is this you know is this and I didn't think of it as religious or even spiritual I just

[00:18:13] thought oh this is something whatever this is this is what I want to study you know like this is this is what I want to know whatever this is that's what I'll do with my life and so what it what it feels like is that's kind of there's a part and ask you for some space and then you discover what feels like self Essence which is this pure awareness that then has this self energy which connects to the part and has this compassionate uh capacity to be with even those you know traumatized parts that that no small smart ego manager can really deal with because they're they're actually stronger and more emotionally powerful than I I could bear and so now there was this greater sense of self that was beyond myself that could be called self or no self whichever you

[00:19:18] like that is whatever that is it has no name but it's real palpable and that was my how to access that and how to apply it immediately to emotions body psychology and healing right which is such a gift that you bring Lo and it's such a powerful profound story that you shared thank you and and the aspect that you're describing of self why I think it's such a gift and so important is I I don't think a lot of people do actually access that maybe I don't know if we want to call it depth of self but I think it's important that we do know that it exists and that there are ways to access it yes uh right because some people you know as they're doing this work might might start with and I certainly started in my own Journey with ifs was compassion curiosity right these seword but this what you're describing is you know an incredible aspect of self yes

[00:20:22] yeah and I think you know even using using the model itself if you if you start to use it really well you can kind of also discover it's you know where it can be expanded which I feel like you know dick and I have talked about many times that if you start many people who are you know listening may be have done some ifs where you feel a part within your within or around your body and you locate it so the question or the protocol is are you aware of this part within or around you so let's say you have anxiety and it's in your head or your throat is there a boundary there's a location now can you be aware that it's a part of you and now can you thank this part for trying to help you trying to keep you alive or get ready or do something and then can you ask it for some space so asking it for space is pretty much a mindful what I call a

[00:21:27] mindful move so you disidentify so it's very similar to what people do in mindfulness meditation you step out of the center of who you are and you now are observing it whether you're observing it from somewhere another location but it seems to still be a point of view so even when people do that there they say are you aware of this other part yes and now can you be aware of this part more clearly yeah and how do you feel toward it and some people say I feel sorry to for it toward it I feel compassionate I feel curious but that it what if that were another part because it started with this ordinary self are you aware of the part can you ask it for some space are you now aware of the part so if it's a polarized part or a self-like part which I think having been curiously asking using curiosity to ask my colleagues and

[00:22:30] others then I ask so if that's a part then who or what is aware of these two parts the anxious part and the Curious compassionate part and then what they often do is they open up into this more spacious and pervasive nonp part base so a part has a location a point of view and this you ask well is there a loation or boundary is there color or shape no is it is it in just one place no it's everywhere and then but are you aware of it yes are you aware as it yes are you aware from it yes and how does this feel toward the mindful witness or the Curious small C compassionate part and the and the part that was anxious and it says well I think you know I feel that we're all one there's a there's a feeling of knowing it not by being a

[00:23:36] detached witness which the first one detaches gets space and is separate but not reidentifying but this third thing which is not so it doesn't blend back but now it's inter connected to it and and spacious so spacious and pervasive and and recognizing almost like an ocean in a wave recognizing the agitated part and the little detached bird flying above the the ocean of of the agitation so it's aware from the sky and the ocean in a feeling of you know this is who I am I'm the presence presence yeah yeah is that how you would describe self then that that that presence and yeah does that have feelings love does it have emotions or is it more of an equinity there yeah

[00:24:40] so this again I'm going to do the Discrimination that you like so so so I needed to add a category because Dick interestingly having been with him for a bunch of years he originally said oh self has no agenda and then now he says oh so no self does have an agenda agenda be compassionate and to heal but what he was doing I think is recognizing this first aspect of self or this primary aspect of self which is I call Self Essence as opposed to self energy and self Essence is this awake awareness or in Tibet they call it rigpa uh true nature or in Hinduism they call Tua and it has no qualities it in in its Essence for that primary Dimension but as soon as but you can't actually it's so pure it can be aware of itself but it can't be aware of contents so it only can be aware

[00:25:46] of just the full the fullness of it but not details and it needs awareness to become Consciousness or self Ence to become self energy and yet it's got to remain it can't come back to be a thought-based part so now when it comes back now it's self- energy now it has essential qualities so the first move that most people make when they feel compassionate from this first can you ask that part if it can give you some space how do you feel compassionate I call that small C Compassion or they call it in Buddhism relative compassion and this essential quality is Ultimate Compassion or unconditional love it has no conditions so it is not expecting anything to change initially and it heals by fully naturally accepting so it's a it's a Unity Consciousness that

[00:26:53] is more of from your boundless heart than your head right so that's self Essence and would you say when so I have some questions about that is it yeah is it a sense of kind of like abiding just yeah just you could say abiding or you could say almost like Stillness or silence if you use the ear as a metaphor as a door or and it just is isness yeah yeah and then when I'm there it it feels like a fuzzy boundary between myself and what you're saying Unity Consciousness so fuzzy boundary means meaning like I'm not sure if it's like it feels like it can really move right into Unity Consciousness like it's like is there a is there an identity or is it a a Unity when I'm at that point yeah

[00:27:57] because it's it's it's almost in its in its pureness it the fuzziness is like the first vibration sensation that isn't formed yet so like in its pure form it's like Big Sky mind it's like you know there there's actually for you know uh form is emptiness then emptiness is form is what they say in Zen so form is emptiness void just no no thing you're not a thing so it's just isness or Abiding and then but you can't walk around that way because we're in this precious human body so the the mingling of the two is so important with the and not just going to Pure awareness and coming back to a commer ego manager and then going to Pure awareness and coming back to a Comm

[00:29:01] ego man but coming to self- leadership in other words that awareness is now the nature of Mind essence of self and mingles with Pleasant and unpleasant feelings and parts that are exiled and protective and and it can be aware of them without having to uh form around one or have be taken over by one or blend with one in order to speak and walk and talk because the human body can now be its vehicle to walk and talk and then Parts can be part of the team that start to help function you know as you know thank you very much so you don't have to be in like I am the South there is nobody here you know you know that's not that's not the thing and it's not like I feel much more calm but now I'm back in a you know uh back in a part that is trying to be

[00:30:08] compassionate and another part that says why are you being so compassionate you know right yeah it sounds like you're really helping us understand how do we embody this essence you know I sometimes talk about that self Essence self- energy self- embodiment and then self leadership so there is almost like a stage of embodiment that is is this Unity Consciousness so when awareness aliveness and your body and all the parts are there and they could be throwing Tantrums you know like what are we doing and you're just there like I call you know grandmother awareness just like all right sweethearts you know just it's all okay no one's getting no one's getting hurt here I know you really got a lot of things that hurt but I'm here and we'll not going anywhere and there's just a uh a kind of a body that is this body but then like one of these teachers tikn Han called this

[00:31:13] interbeing so it's embodiment that's interconnected to other beings and and nature you know so there's a there's feeling of a embodiment and then self- leadership is kind of the act the action I call it a wake loving flow Consciousness that you can talk and walk and create and then a part comes up and triggers you get triggered and it takes over and you're like whoa you know and you're like on this ride but but you learn these tools so the tools that that I'm interested in and teach mostly aren't as much about how therapists can work with clients or how to work in a therapeutic way with Exiles but how in the middle of your day to feel yourself getting taken over by a part and recognize oh that's have that first Awakening oh I'm in a part oh there's a part oh that's a part that's that's the first Awakening and then's like all right can you be with it and be aware of

[00:32:15] it and without judging or without trying to make it fix it or make it go away or bring the polarized part in that wants to help it okay and now can you ask for some space and all of a sudden you start to do this and then it just becomes kind of part of your life to do this navigating of your own Consciousness using these tools of ifs and these tools of effortless mindfulness beautiful would you say that Consciousness could be another c-word for self sure yeah yeah because especially for self energy yeah yeah okay and the self- essence would you say is eternal I mean you know that's the thing I I think you might have to be Eternal or have been there before time started to really make that claim but I don't always go to the metaphysical but it feels like you could use that when

[00:33:17] you're in the now it feels Timeless you're not orienting to time that's one of the the amazing like time so awareness is kind of the space quality that the now is the not orienting to the past to be and not anticipating one moment into the future and noticing the present moments coming and going so you're actually not being in the present moment you actually can't live in the present moment because present moment if you really Define things as they're defined present moments just come and go tick tock tick tock like a river flowing down each moment is gone but the now is aware of past present and future in the now you can make a list to go shopping later and feel like you're not caught in

[00:34:21] the present the past or the future so coming back to the Parts yeah so we know Parts have self and how is their self expressed or experienced differently than self yeah so yeah I mean it's important to say something about parts I mean this is one of the radical big breakthroughs is moving from psychological system and even just common cultural understanding of like there's one me I have a personality there's a there's a me that has a personality and I I am worried I am angry I am sad so as if these are qualities of a me and then some some of the the more radical spiritualities and meditation systems like there is no me there's just no self and then as if that's that me is a illusion but in but the ifs and this

[00:35:31] effortless mindfulness it's like no no that's that's an important part of you you don't need to get rid of that in fact it's it will serve a very good function to get you around it's just not the center of who you are it's not the essence of who you are it's it's not the ego identity it's an ego function it's a function of me so as soon as you realize that oh there isn't a me that has feelings but there are parts that have there's you know I am sad I feel sadness I am aware of a part of me that's sad I am aware that the awareness doesn't feel sad and is connected to the part of me that does feel sad and other parts that are here that don't feel feel sad but I can be with the part of me that's sad and the way where we know each other

[00:36:37] from essential nature is from around and within we start to realize oh we're not different so you know the great metaphor that's easy to understand is ocean and waves so a wave when it arises it's like oh no I'm going to crash on the sure I'm going to crash in the middle of the ocean oh I just returned to the so so the ocean we're all the ocean of experience and each part is like a wave in the ocean arises being the same and being different being unique some is just like and others so so that kind of is happening within us and certainly people experience Parts differently some of them feel like they really are little people some people see them some people feel them as energy packets

[00:37:42] or more personality you know thought feeling sensation and worldview so that often is the what a part is it has a view or an opinion or an agenda or a a a way that it sees or you could say it's kind of caught in a Time prison you know it sees like it it's a four-year-old that got stuck in this traumatic hurt and and started to just you know fight flight or freeze it kind of froze it kind of is a wound trauma that freezes and hides yeah I love how you describe the various ways that Parts could show up yeah and so yes so they have self so they're part of the ocean yeah but it seems to be that they get burdened with separation conditioning trauma pain and fear yeah so that's the nature of the you know that's the blending un

[00:38:46] blending the essence of what a part is is it feels disconnected it it kind of self references and turns in and collapses around itself as if it's separate so that's it and then it doesn't know self right and that's part of its suffering to be cut off from Source yeah that's really the main suffering of a parts-based uh life and even when it is a parts-based life it doesn't even feel like a parts based life it feels like you get possessed by different parts and you're calling them all me there's the part it's judging and then the part says don't judge so much what do you mean judge judging I'm you're judging me for judging don't judge me for judge judging I'm judging you for judging judging you know so that they all just keep saying I I I I I and there're you know sometimes you can feel their voices are you know in your head but it tends to feel always like me and

[00:39:52] that recognition there's a part is one of the amazing realizations then the next realization that there are no bad parts is a radical one which is similar to to this uh realization method in Buddhism which differs from kind of trying to transform negative into positive all the time but just like recognition that it's all nature of mind it's all made of awake Consciousness it just patterns into Pleasant unpleasant um ups and downs and everything is trying to be connected in love the essential nature even when it is disconnected is connected when it feels disconnected it's still connected always so there's never on the ultimate view the all there's always an awake nature that's just dancing on the relative view it gets caught in a point of view in a part and so that dance

[00:40:58] of what awakens is the is not the awakeness the awakeness is already awake it's the the part that's contracted awakes awakens to its own nature which is greater than itself and within itself and that's that's where the healing the healing capacity comes from it being both uh a compassionate other that's why self- energy has to move can't just be I there's a self that's outside feeling compassionate toward this poor little part and trying to help it unburden as if there's a second another dualism created it's really got to be in there patiently letting it feel the reality that's safe so would you say that the path of Awakening in one way we can say is that the self is helping those contracted

[00:42:01] Parts awaken yeah I mean it is helping it already is you know that's the you know this paradoxical thing it's already is the self and it already is awake but it it it's ignorance or or obscuration or perspective maybe perspective and the the pure self essence or awake awareness Has No Agenda to awaken because it's already it already sees everything as already connected even with its suff suffering and pains and like that's all part of it yep it's not going to kill me not killing anything it's just and and then as soon as the two come together and kind of it's almost like the heart mind or the heart's desire the the connection of that initial awareness and aliveness that's has that love has the agenda it's even more than compassion it's really the

[00:43:06] unconditional love or the heart's desire that says oh the relative is suffering the relative can heal some of the ignorance and be more free rather than having to be dominated by by that Contracting contraction part to part part to part and part to world so this you know so even that initial Awakening so self- leadership just initial you know realization of this unburdening some and you can have a realization before all parts are unburden you don't have to unburden that's the thing that one person who went to hear dick early on before I met him said hey Lo you should check this guy out because he does just what you do except upside down and so by that he just meant he was

[00:44:10] very much at that point about you know the way to access self you have to unburden the parts and then that will allow you to access self whereas I was like the only way you're gonna unburden those parts is you gotta have the capacity itself because these protectors are not going to let you in and he's like no those protectors you got to get permission to get go in but who's going in I'm like who's going in to unburden them you can relatively unburden them but then they're just kind of like you're still within a parts world so we you know ultimately either way you go you can find your way there you find your way yeah and you know you're never nothing's ever perfect it's not about that but there's this these tipping points or these Awakenings these droppings these openings realizations that make such a different in people live you know that is possible that is that it requires getting out of you know I talk about these four four

[00:45:16] obstacles of to self- leadership and one is is often called this um spiritual bypass which would be this to not do psychological work and just act like everything's Divine it's all taken care of there's only awareness in in the world I am the awareness there's no problems then I call intellectual overpass which is you make that I love that term yeah you have some some some little experience of that but you can't kind of hold on to it because it's kind of you're kind of pushing it in the first place so then you have to make a philosophy of it I believe that I am free of all that all things are working out to be you know and then you make that and then but then the third one is is psychological underpass so that means you just do continual psychological work without ever accessing self or self essence or awake Consciousness so you're

[00:46:19] just working yeah that is so important to be speaking about in the mental health field yeah and not a lot of people are speaking about that I don't think no I mean the ifs is one of you know there's there's a few models obviously Yung and uh psychosynthesis and a few others that have you know kind of a meditative or self essence or awake Consciousness as some Dimension but in ifs it's upfront said this this is this is who you are and this is is what heals and so that that immediately was like okay let's go you know like so so the psychological underpass is you can do so that's the amazing thing so if you do whatever psychological system generally therapy is good you know so it will it will have benefits and initial meditation

[00:47:22] generally is good and generally has benefits there's also some percentage of people do therapy that you know it doesn't help them and some people who meditate have you know doesn't help them makes them more stressed or just is a waste of time but those are relative those are all relative practices of you know working with the battery of the body just body mind and parts moving parts around trying to clean up the cloud of your body and mind soon as it gets you clean it up a little bit then it gets messy again over here you got to go back you got to move this around and and until you step out of the cloud and experience the awareness that's already free and here and aware of itself by itself and then is also within the cloud and arising as humidity and thoughts and feelings and your body in the room

[00:48:29] then it's a it's it's like a developmental stage is what I I consider it so I don't think it's like a you know for Olympic athletes of meditation only or for the fortunate few that I think it's learnable it's teachable it's part of that kind of system like doing ifs therapy that you're doing it to move towards self- leadership so that's the goal let's let's let's be clear about what that is and how to do it right that brings me back to so the experience I had with you of awareness being aware of itself I want to share that and I don't it might be a little bit different than what you were trying to have me experience but so after our uh Retreat I went to Sardinia for a week in Italy and I was floating in the ocean and really relaxed and I started to become aware of the water and I started becoming aware that I was connected to the water which is

[00:49:32] connected to a huge ocean and then I turn that awareness around and I could start to feel that ocean aware of me and then I did the same thing with the the air the space the sky started becoming aware of it and it being aware of me and there was a quite ecstatic feeling of being also in the middle of the water and the air being aware of both uh yeah that's I mean that's it that's that's both literally it and and the best metaphor for it you know that okay that's amazing I mean those are the metaphors I use and you're like well let me just literally do that let me literally be aware of having the ocean be aware of me and me arising in and in and as the ocean and then the sky because that's the one the ocean is a little more visceral and kind of you know okay yeah right I'm in the ocean I

[00:50:35] kind of feel it of using your senses but soon as you do the sky that's the one that's the you know the one that's not on the map of our Western Consciousness that the awareness is aware and it's not aware from the middle of my head using only one type of awareness called attention that works like a flashlight that there's actually a feeling of awareness of the sky and almost as if the awareness that I am is aware of the sky from the sky and from within me so that there's this pervasive boundless awareness but how does that make sense you know you go back to thought like that doesn't sound scientific you know like how could that that be true that's weird that's you know some belief that's but that's the that's the that's the description

[00:51:38] that's the pointer that's the marker that's the felt sense experience and it is like a when you feel that your brain actually from having done Neuroscience experiments your brain will show that in a couple different places that it has changed its functioning into a calm less going from default mode to task mode this kind of going into Daydream and out it'll balance in inside and outside and it'll balance this Bridal lobe which is when it's very active is always making you feel separate from everything else so when you do the awareness of awareness that's outside and inside then your pride lobe activity goes down rather than when your parietal love activity goes down you feel that so you actually do the meditation affects your body and state starts to stabilize this new normal

[00:52:41] as you know and that's the feeling of what you're the person you studied with talked about walking in the woods and that's one of the markers of being in a flow state which is one of the optimal States for musicians and athletes and others who you know optimally perform they feel connected to everything they feel like they're beyond the ego they feel feel like there's an essential Bliss or Joy they feel like their time has slowed down there's a interner connection with everything yes yeah and so I took that experience and I made it made me think like when I'm out in nature you know usually I'm so oriented toward like what am I observing what am I looking out at but then I started to turn it around and start to be aware of the space or the trees or the birds and the Animals aware of me and I and also so in that situation as well as in the ocean I felt really plugged in like plugged into everything and that made me wonder it it

[00:53:48] seems like nature is naturally that way like the animals and the trees and everything that has Consciousness because they see seem so interconnected and aware you know every animal's very aware of their surroundings and what's going on without necessarily looking at it they're they're feeling it and they're receiving it and seems like anyway no I I totally agree and that feeling of of being both aware of Nature and feeling like nature is aware of you is is this kind of both and and then that that seems like you know it's like this movement are you aware of the space or is the space aware of itself and is are you aware from the space is one of the exercises I do to do that but then the key is and do you feel plugged in so that there's no longer going out to come in they're going I'm going they aware of them they're aware of me plugged in so plugged in is like the simultaneous called simultaneous

[00:54:51] mind same same taste you know seamlessness and that that's a quality that is so refreshing so relieving and people experience that in their you know favorite times and they go and do their Leisure experience to try to get that what if you could do that it what if it was an essential quality not Reliant or dependent on a place a person a thing uh or or you know circumstances what if it were a way to shift or tune in anywhere even on the Subways of New York City and that sounds incredible to be able to do it on the Subways in New York City yeah well that's where I went that's where I practiced is that where you're living in New York City lot I I was for for 30 years and now I'm Upstate New York but

[00:55:57] okay where are you in upstate now uh near Woodstock uh Woodstock okay called Stone Ridge yeah a that's beautiful up there yeah I have so many more questions for you but we are um you know limited on our time so I would like to tell everybody who's listening if they want to learn more from you know what you're sharing I would love for you to share what upcoming offerings that you have and how this work can help people access their C the self energy how that impacts their Awakening and I also want to throw in just another curious question for you Lo which is do you see a difference between accessing self with or without psychedelics yeah I mean that's a that's a very good question and good good something I'm I'm very interested in because uh actually I have been involved kind of early on with even uh working in the treatment because I'm a licensed

[00:57:01] psychotherapist with ketamine and I started when it first came out to treat severe depression I was helping a couple of my clients who were amazing people with severe depression and so it was very helpful and then they would describe these trips so I was working with that and then started doing some research with meditation that led to research with psychedelic researchers and and there's this scale called the Panky Richards scale Panky Richard's mystical scale and it measures in psilocybin research they use it down in John's Hopkins for treating PTSD and using psilocybin mushrooms and it's a one to five scale and if you score like 3.5 and above in you know these 40 questions you'll tend pretty highly to have results from long-term and stable so I decided to do weekend Retreats and give my and and do

[00:58:05] this protocol I do with ifs and effortless mindfulness and gave them to my students and I didn't use the words phrases exactly that are in there and they scored all three Retreats scored 4.5 amazing yeah yeah so there's something that's without psychedelics that's without P Ducks although in my La last uh group in Costa Rica where it's legal about 20 out of the 70 people did on the day off in the middle did sell cybin mushrooms and then came back to the group and then they scored a little lower than the other group so were you expecting that or I expected them to be the same or higher they were pretty close it was pretty close probably within research but certainly not higher so that's the amazing thing so what is the effect of the medicine the medicine certainly has very strong effects it takes you into

[00:59:09] whether you want to call it ego dissolution or uh has the ego managers or parts step back which is what dick Schwarz likes to call it he says it's not dissolving it's having them all step back so you have no parts and then the Exiles come forward and some people with psychedelics can access self true nature others get have a bad trip because if they're flooded with the unconscious and they don't have access to self and the scary contents come up 40% of people tend to have a bad experience whereas if yeah so I'm I'm very interested in both you know treating treating people um and seeing how there's an integration with ifs and particularly effortless mindfulness and psychedelics but also I think I'm more interested now in almost creating a protocol and a kind of retreat or uh for

[01:00:14] those who don't want to take psychedelics or who have taken psychedelics enough they don't want to take them anymore or they want to integrate them or they they can't take them people who are sober or people who are on anti-depressants or they can still have what is what what can happen in those healing experiences is the same as happens in the effortless mindfulness awakened Consciousness they move through these five levels of mind and then they're able to be from this self Essence and self- energy with parts and memories and they can kind of self liberate I love that and I'm with you I I think that it's great to have these options for people because there is a big boom in the psychedelics right now but I don't know from my perspective not a lot of other options especially involving the psychological ifs work in having these profound transformative experiences without it so that's awesome

[01:01:17] that you're providing that yeah so if you'd like to share some of the offerings you have coming up I know you have a certification program coming up soon yeah so I have a like the first part of a kind of in-depth learning of effortless mindfulness which always has ifs in it but is primarily for people to use with themselves during the day and work with their parts and access these five levels of mind so coming up October 1st there is what's called effortless mindfulness level one six week series and then in the spring there'll be level two and then in the fall there'll be level three and that'll be that'll have a certification for helping professionals people who want to go deeper and just live it or people who want to even be a facilitator as a meditation teacher so that's available and then I have a couple of online wait I have a question about that one and congratulations on creating that certification program that sounds

[01:02:18] awesome so it is if you cannot make it live you can do it on your own pace is that right yeah so there's yeah and if you're doing it on your own you're not live is there a way for you to interact and ask questions and things like that yeah there'll be there'll be questions that will be you'll be able to email in it won't be as much of a the first level won't have as much interaction of questions so it'll be really an overview and and very experiential though it'll be like I'll be leading you through similar to what you're talking about so there's resources and books and charts and research papers and stuff on the support pages but I'm going to be like okay here we go you ready take a breath now let's see if you can allow awareness to move from thinking to seeing okay now notice that you're not doing it you know so like step by step experientially teaching people how to

[01:03:25] move their own awareness and access self in a way that they can repeat it on their own so it's very experiential and so the videos will be you know kind of talking through then you can email questions and then by the third level we'll have small groups that will meet in between that will have that will be by by interest so therapists will form little group you know coaches yoga teachers uh you know kind of leaders in at work people who are just creative artists and then you know groups like that okay great so and people need to sign up by October 1st yeah is it closes on October 1st or after it does yeah and then you know there'll there'll be opportunities after that to take it as Evergreen course but certainly the being part of the group if you hear this in time and are interested

[01:04:30] yeah great and what other offerings do you have coming up yeah so I have a actually a live training at Calo Yoga Center in beautiful linnux Massachusetts in the middle of October which is like perfect Leaf season uh 4 day ifs and effortless mindfulness experiential Retreat that's coming up mid October that's on my website and then there are two Advanced courses I did just this year on ifs and this model of moving from self uh Essence to self energy to self leadership that are available on my site for those who want to do kind of a online in-depth training of this approach wonderful and do you have any other Retreats lined up for Costa Rica yes one more Retreat Costa Rica is the last is the first week in March coming

[01:05:34] up first week in March so that's available to sign up for oh it is okay great I love Costa Rica still some spaces and it's yeah it's it's just so much fun it's like everyone has so much fun and does this deep work and then just talks and laughs so it's not a silent Retreat very deep practicing and then go to the beach you know yeah that sounds perfect yeah I hope to see you there and then last question here what is your greatest wish or Hope For Humanity yeah I mean it re it really is the the relief of suffering at all levels and yeah so so any level will do physical emotional societal but certainly to help hope that people find this freedom from suffering within so that wherever they are whatever Situation's happening they access this awake awareness this Unity Consciousness and unconditional

[01:06:39] love that is who they are yeah beautiful beautifully stated and I share a similar vision for Humanity and um lo I want to thank you so much for your time and all the work that you've done to put all this together to help others it's really truly special and unique and I hope that people do come and learn more from you okay thank you Danielle so great to be here be with you again and see you thanks for listening to this podcast if you found this episode helpful please consider assisting me in reaching more people by sharing it with others or writing a review together let's raise our Consciousness to help evolve Humanity for more information please visit my website danielc caron.com that's d n i e l l e c a r r o n.com [Music]
