[21:57:26] alright alright alright [21:57:29] How is everybody? [21:57:42] wow its matthew mcconaugughy [21:57:49] Yes murph [21:57:56] Now I have to go discover the secrets of the universe [21:57:58] uuaauuuuuuuu [21:58:16] snrk [21:58:18] Raptor1628 have to go to a concert. Be late by two hours if its still going by then. [21:58:24] yeah yeah [21:58:27] have a good time [21:58:31] Oh totally [21:58:36] Gonna be so much fun [21:58:40] Nerd [21:58:42] This is first time playing this piece for me [21:58:43] so [21:58:45] :o [21:58:47] why dont you do proper nerd stuff [21:58:48] Apples 4 lyfe [21:58:53] also gotta go [21:58:54] what's the plan on management stuff for this meeting [21:58:56] Bye~ [21:59:25] *** Joins: mkalash (mkalash@mustafa.kalash) [21:59:29] also like i said in thread i'm here but my internet drops all the time atm so i may be quiet [21:59:37] we'll see [21:59:53] trying to light the beacons and get everyone in here [22:00:10] * Paradoxon warbles. [22:00:16] are we gonna have everyone talking or should i be poking the bot to make it work with the !request/!release stuff [22:00:35] eh.... [22:00:40] I think we're good without a talking stick [22:00:43] sure [22:00:45] if we need it later, we can turn it on [22:00:47] *nod [22:00:57] *checks the roster [22:01:08] turning it on would require an op though [22:01:14] which we... uh... don't appear to have [22:01:23] I remember that bot [22:01:26] and the channel's not registered, so [22:01:29] I couldn't be bothered to do more than read with it around [22:01:48] mm, i thought it slowed stuff down quite a bit, yeah [22:01:58] And back [22:02:06] anyway, anyone in contact with welp or snapwalk that can get their butts in here? [22:02:17] I am here :U [22:02:24] :o [22:02:45] Need to grow a bigger butt so Raptor1628 can spot it [22:02:51] wao [22:03:04] or borrrow one from someone else [22:03:04] I think that your butt is just fine, Welp. [22:03:10] oh, you were greyed so I thought you were AFK [22:03:18] alright, I'm going to be riight back [22:03:46] Windows 10 is really bad at 4k :| [22:03:58] yes it is [22:04:07] There is a choice [22:04:07] thats why i have my laptop set to half native [22:04:09] You have a 4K screen? [22:04:09] :( [22:04:34] And i thought my 2 1920x1080 screens i have at home were an overkill [22:04:57] It is between choosing to have everything 1:1 tiny, or to have inconsistent shitty scaling with a mouse cursor that looks like it's from literally 3.1 [22:04:57] i wouldn't ever say that is overkill but yh [22:05:02] oh man [22:05:04] the scaling is so bad [22:05:08] ugh [22:05:14] * GinjaNinja32 1080p + 1440x900 :v [22:05:22] i just set mine to half 4k and it looks fine even if it's a bit lower than i'd like [22:05:27] anything else looks whack [22:05:38] Isn't that just [22:05:41] 1080p [22:05:44] *** Joins: HarpyEagle (HarpyEagle@sorcery-2ogde8.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca) [22:05:49] hokay, back, the head was beckoning [22:05:53] I wonder why Microsoft keeps failing at getting the DPI stuff, etc. right [22:05:54] you people and your high rez screens [22:06:08] anyway, think this is who we'll have, let me just take a note [22:06:14] how's everybody doing? [22:06:20] Not dead yet [22:06:21] Been better [22:06:33] My head hurts. [22:06:46] I can't handle this, I'm going back to tiny mode. [22:07:01] Good [22:07:01] man, everybody's fucked up today [22:07:19] :/ [22:07:38] My think got cancelled because it snowed even after they were like "Pfffft, snow, probably won't cancel" [22:08:05] Alright, got a roster together, let's get this ball rolling [22:08:24] On the bright side [22:08:29] It's sunny out today [22:08:36] yeah, when it's not snowing... [22:08:39] My condolences, HarpyEagle [22:08:43] Anyway, first, small stuff [22:09:19] Anybody have comments, questions, concerns, complaints, bitches, congratulations for something done last month? [22:09:35] Population's rising. [22:10:32] Everyone thank Snapshot for stepping up and taking over Mordeth's position on short notice [22:10:59] And in case anyone else noticed that, PapaDrow and Za_Redman retired and were retired respectively for inactivity [22:11:53] We'll save the debate on a new map for last, because it'll probably take the most time, so first on the agenda is... [22:12:31] Polaris Ports, how much is too much? Is there anything else major we need to port? Should there be some control for porting things that might be a little too weird for Bay? [22:13:15] I dunno. I don't feel like is a super big deal to port a few of their stuff. [22:13:18] IMO if it wouldn't be accepted as a bay-first feature it shouldn't be accepted as a port, anything else... meh. standard PR controls. [22:13:27] Yeah. [22:13:37] Pretty much what Ginja said. [22:13:44] Ginja basically summarized the whole thing, yeah. [22:13:48] Things have been fine so far in that regard. [22:13:48] treat ports the same as any other PR, basically [22:13:53] For example, they just did something with making ponchos for each department, down to armor and rad protection, and another with little pink lunchboxes [22:14:15] I know we're not spr srs, but they're definitely making a lot of stuff for a more residential feel [22:14:27] that's more what I'm getting at, not something like uh...that dark click port [22:14:42] I could see the lunchboxes around. Ponchos... Yeah, might be too much. [22:14:45] I think we have a lunchbox port up? [22:14:49] Yeah, I'm with Paradoxon [22:14:53] Yeah we have lunchboxes up [22:14:57] Lunchboxes make sense to me in the Exodus setting, so I wouldn't have any issue with that [22:15:02] *** Quits: spookerton (spookerton@fluffy.wambler) (Connection closed) [22:15:04] Dunno about ponchos [22:15:04] I have generally focused on content PRs that fit more or less into the current station map [22:15:07] we do have a lunchbox port up, yeah [22:15:19] *** Joins: spookerton (spookerton@fluffy.wambler) [22:15:24] Lunchboxe have thus been ported, casual clothing, ponchos, and the like haven't [22:15:32] I mostly agree with Paradox. While some things may be nice, it should probably be regulated. The fact that polaris has it doesn't mean we have to have it too [22:15:46] I see they're axing tcomms. I wouldn't be opposed to that. [22:16:02] That PR's been up forever [22:16:07] T-coms would be very much simplified in my current say PR [22:16:16] I don't think Tcomms should be axed. Just, be made more accessible. Having it hidden behind a super-regulated teleporter... Meh. [22:16:20] And that's a pretty big thing to axe [22:16:39] About telecommunications, i think completely axing them is a bad idea. Instead, the system should be tweaked, simplified, and should actually motivate people to tinker with it [22:16:41] I don't like the way they're doing it, anyway. [22:16:46] I guess I'm more for simplifying it a ton [22:16:56] It's unnecessarily bulky, especially since it's never used. [22:17:07] If we axe TComms we could axe nscript or whatever its called [22:17:12] I'm not against adding things like their casual clothes or whatever, just wondering what staff opinion was on it, this cropped up from a dsay debate [22:17:13] What happened to Loganbacca's networking system? [22:17:13] To shed a little light on that- it's one of Kelenius' PRs that's intended to (afaik) basically replace the existing idea of lots of interacting machines with a single magic black box that does the same tasks without all of the signalling. [22:17:21] Scripting is already disabled [22:18:03] Alright, so looks like that's not a huge issue, I'm definitely in the "change, don't remove" camp for telecomms, but I'll leave that up to our devs [22:18:16] yeah, NTSL has been gone for aaaaaages [22:18:28] My rewrite would keep the T-com machines but they wouldn't be the crazy implementation they are now [22:18:39] The current code is unmaintainable [22:18:46] Definitely a start. [22:19:06] Didn't Loganbacca come up with something to replace the packet system? [22:19:12] wireless connections or something [22:19:26] There is a simple system for sending packages between things, yes [22:19:38] NTSL is really an overkill in terms of complexity. There should be some basic logic like servers dropping messages if they contain "X", but not something that requires you to code, which is something most players don't have skills in. [22:20:06] I could live with some coding, the main issue is how the server can be killed with a basic while-loop [22:20:09] Next up is a topic suggested by ThatOneGuy as part of his work on Lore, he's been working on implementing Khaarmani both in lore and in the game, as well as another antag race, both of which would be admin only, to be used for events or other things along those lines. TOG wanted to know what the staff feeling on event-only antag races was. [22:20:28] I think it was a system to basically abstract proc calls between objects, so you could directly call stuff on some other objects instead of passing datums around [22:20:50] That would be cool [22:20:58] *** Joins: simpleirc (simpleirc@sorcery-g6nen6.a077.mov5.100c.2600.IP) [22:21:05] I'd be for it. [22:21:09] Personally I don't think it's a problem, it keeps some races from getting too casual like Vox did [22:21:16] and keeps some sense of mystery [22:21:17] Yeah. [22:21:21] Oh, before we get too far away from the last topic [22:21:28] Fine with me, but I'd be wary of spending too much time on fleshing them out. A framework's more useful than rails. [22:21:31] The problem with Vox is that it required whitelist for their specific gamemode [22:21:33] Lore could use some expansion with races which are not station races [22:21:51] actually nvm [22:21:55] And nobody would have the whitelist so it was never played. If its admin only that shouldnt be a problem. [22:22:00] Which is why I think the idea was, grab staff and players, fill them in on specific lore if they need it [22:22:15] which lets us have a bit more influence over quality and adherence to lore [22:22:23] I wish TOG was here to go over this in more detail, but that's life. [22:22:23] So basically the way old heist worked with vox, except admin-chosen rather than rng. [22:22:24] indeed that was the plan [22:22:24] I'm totally for it. I miss antag-only species like the Vox used to be. A few monthes ago, I was actually working on revamping a part of the skrellian lore with that idea in mind (before the Resomi were announced) [22:22:34] im here actually. on phone. [22:22:44] *** simpleirc is now known as TOGphone [22:22:46] oh that's who that is [22:22:47] Fantastic [22:22:48] i was wondering [22:23:03] TOG, take it away [22:23:19] I'm here now. Missed the first 10 minutes but I'm caught up now [22:23:44] *** Joins: Ravensdale (Raven@sorcery-i7urt5.dial.eltopia.net) [22:24:11] whoopsy lol. alright the idea with species, specifically the idea i had, kharmaan, and probably any new species we add to the game would be event only [22:24:12] I mean i'd be for people playing Vox unwhitelisted if I didn't already know they'd just turn into clowns. [22:24:35] On that subject, well, since I was talking about it [22:24:52] I still have my Ka'merr stuff written somewhere [22:24:55] whitelists are useless for stuff like that so who ever is putting them in round just grabs staff and players and fill them in on what they need [22:25:33] The advantage with that antag-only species is that it would be tied to the skrellian whitelist, not some obscure whitelist that nobody would ever apply for [22:25:36] wouldnt even have a fully super detailed thing like the other species since they're not crew [22:26:27] I'm against the idea of whitelisting antag anything. [22:26:35] agreed [22:26:41] It's just something we would grab players for [22:27:07] *** Quits: spookerton (spookerton@fluffy.wambler) (Connection closed) [22:27:13] Well, I was looking for the thread I made at the time, but: [22:27:17] Imo create a brief synopsis/lore post for. If you need them, recruit players and throw them in bodies [22:27:32] And tell them to use AOOC if they have any questions [22:27:52] *** Joins: spookerton (spookerton@fluffy.wambler) [22:27:57] And then toss them a lore post to read in the first couple of minutes of a round. [22:28:03] No major complaints or concerns? Looks like you've got the green light TOG. [22:28:13] Anyone got a last word on that? [22:28:14] Eh [22:28:23] It was just basically aspecies available for Heist round, so it wasn't for their own specific gamemode or whatever, so tying them to the skrellian whitelist didn't seem an issue to me [22:28:27] I'd rather have a brief synopsis that pops up, or a boo to read. Something in-game [22:28:30] But, yeah, ToG's plans, totally for it [22:28:36] instead of 'here, go to this wiki page/forum thread to read all you want' [22:28:42] book* [22:28:43] We can have both [22:29:26] When you grab the players for the event, you probably want to set their antag status anyways [22:29:28] We can make a race entry on them [22:29:30] In game [22:29:31] What distinguishes ka'ammer or whatever from Skrell, but isn't distinctive enough to warrant a separate whitelist? [22:29:36] Just nobody would be able to select them [22:29:40] That will give them a blurb that someone can write [22:29:48] *** Joins: TOG (TOGphone@sorcery-q42kgf.6614.aegr.100c.2600.IP) [22:30:15] Because they're absolutely not Skrell :o They're the neanderthal pseudo-raptors that just happen to live on Qerr'balak too, and have a long history of being legally and illegally enslaved [22:30:36] And you want to tie them to the Skrell whitelist? [22:30:37] *** Quits: TOGphone (simpleirc@sorcery-g6nen6.a077.mov5.100c.2600.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [22:30:50] But, not the topic, I thought I'd just mention it while we were on the topic of antag stuff. Should probably finish writing their stuff. [22:30:52] What, are we talking about resomi now? [22:31:09] No pseudo raptors from skrell [22:31:18] Resomis are the reason why I dropped them at the time. Zuhayr announced them like, two days after my own thread. [22:31:38] Ah, right, now I remember [22:32:05] The answer, in any case Para, is seeing as event-only antags are alright, if you'd like to make a race like that, go right ahead. [22:32:06] Yeah. Somehow those two got mixed together in my mind. TBH I'm not really a fan of the current resomi lore, so that probably helped [22:32:19] Anyone have anything new before we get too off track? [22:32:27] Tying them with the skrell whitelist makes a lot of sense, because they're deeply entangled with the Skrell's history, so I expect the whitelisted to know about them. Anyway. [22:32:32] I like the idea of an antag-only alien species [22:32:42] Ala xenomorph [22:32:42] Why are you needing a whitelist if they are event only? [22:33:01] as long as they will never go the way of the Vox and become crew as well. [22:33:07] Because what I'm talking about is not event only, it's an optional thing for Heist. [22:33:08] We really wouldn't...I think that was just para's idea for implementation before we talked about this [22:33:42] Basically, whitelisted for Skrell would have the possibility of playing Ka'merr rather than Skrell as Heisters. That's all. [22:33:49] Heist is a pretty different debate, and all I could see whitelisted species for heist leading to is the current situation for vox [22:33:53] But we're drifiting. [22:33:58] (so basically the same as vox in heist are alternate) [22:34:26] The issue with Vox is that they were the only species allowed in Heist at the time. What I'm suggesting is totally different. [22:34:31] Yeah [22:34:46] No, you're suggesting the way vox work currently [22:34:50] No as in, /right now/ vox in heist are not the same vox as station vox. [22:34:50] where if you have their whitelist [22:35:01] you can play the antag vox [22:35:01] I think having species that are antagonist only would be pretty cool actually as long as they aren't restricted to just one gamemode. [22:35:06] Vox: Species tied to their own whitelist for their own gamemode. Ka'merr : Optional species for the skrell whitelisted for Heist rounds along the normal Heisters. [22:35:23] You haven't played heist in a very long time, have you :p [22:35:34] 'their own gamemode' being... Heist? [22:35:51] Sofar the Bogani are antag only and meant for events as if they have a gamemode theyll get overplayed and old quick [22:36:05] game modes with species get older faster than crew species [22:36:06] bogani [22:36:21] Raaah, yeah, we need a stick because this is getting confused. No, I'm talking about "old Vox" here. Yes, they would work like "modern Vox", except that there's still a pretty big gap between Skrell and Ka'merr, compared to Vox Pariah and Vox Raider. [22:36:25] Also I think event-only species seems like a good compromise to a whitelist as event-only necessarily means they'll have admin supervision I guess [22:36:26] Anyway. [22:36:32] Anyway, we're getting fairly off track [22:36:38] indeed we are [22:36:42] spook idea thing [22:37:08] Event only antag can work. [22:37:10] Next topic was one I was going to throw up on the forums, but figured I could get more of a response here [22:38:44] A lot of our retired admins still kick around on the forums a good deal, the idea was brought up that Retired Staff that wanted the title would be given a custom title on the forums, no big colored banner, showing up in the staff bar or anything, just "Retired Staff" instead of a job based on their post count, and with that rank they would be able to post in the public staff forum, the way retmins could on the old forums [22:39:04] They wouldn't have access to the private forums, or any authority, but they could speak their mind on goings on and public staff topics [22:39:26] I'm looking to avoid any power creep on retmins, but the suggestion did have some merit [22:40:14] What does having retired staff posting on public staff forum topics add to the discussions that happen there? [22:40:27] Not in a negative sense, I just mean as a motive for doing it. [22:40:50] Experience mostly, community investment, and a bit of wisdom from some folks [22:40:53] they have knowledge, they've staffed before, and often have useful opinions. [22:41:01] More voices from people with experience. [22:41:05] Wouldn't see an issue with it. At worst, if someone abuses it, we take it from them and that's it. Retired mins could shed some light on stuff more recent staff don't know about/understand [22:41:45] A retired with honors title is what staff for another game/forum get, and it works well there [22:41:58] Indeed. (also getting off shortly bit will be back) [22:42:14] I get the general sentiment, but most pre-decision chatter happens in the private forums. Primarily, unless I'm missing something, most of the discussion that happens in the public forums is stuff like roll calls and announcements. [22:43:00] Which positions retired admins more as commentators than involved people. [22:43:24] Spook, how much have you been looking at the staff forums lately? [22:43:32] On and off ��; [22:43:47] the only policy discussion we've had on the private forums lately was for ERT guidelines [22:43:51] Which was secret for a reason [22:43:57] Almost everything else has been public [22:44:05] https://baystation12.net/forums/view/psf/ [22:44:44] Eh. I guess I'm thinking more in terms of total topics and posts from a snapshot pov. [22:44:50] Are there any guidelines currently on what we should take to the private forum? It seems like p much everything is in the public forum these days [22:45:36] that'd be important to have. so far all I've seen is admin stuff and the ERT thing but that's all been you Raps [22:45:39] Relevant to retired staff I'm still planning on implementing blue NT badges for retired staff in game. [22:45:47] sweet [22:45:53] cool [22:46:02] I swear I wrote that somewhere [22:46:10] *** Quits: TOG (TOGphone@sorcery-q42kgf.6614.aegr.100c.2600.IP) (Connection closed) [22:46:18] To staff wondering if their topic belongs in this forum, currently anything relating to Lore, Non-Confidential Staff Policy, Gameplay, or Server Direction will be posted here. Anything else will be kept private at the OP's discretion. [22:46:22] Citation from https://baystation12.net/forums/threads/purpose-of-this-forum.1574/ [22:46:24] Since active staff have name color changes they'll be fine as is. [22:46:31] atlantis beat me to it [22:46:52] Hmm. I guess minuta like Atlantis telling the admins about a new verb seems like a good example of something that belongs in the private forum [22:47:14] Ah [22:47:14] *** Joins: Mordeth221 (Mordeth221@Mordeth.Mordekaiser) [22:47:38] Thanks Atlantis [22:47:54] *** Quits: Mordeth221 (Mordeth221@Mordeth.Mordekaiser) (Connection closed) [22:48:11] *** Joins: Mordeth221 (Mordeth221@Mordeth.Mordekaiser) [22:49:01] yeah [22:49:03] Hey Mordie [22:49:11] We were actually just talking about you [22:49:15] And all retired mins for that matter [22:49:32] *** Joins: TOG (simpleirc@sorcery-q42kgf.6614.aegr.100c.2600.IP) [22:49:35] Okay, any major complaints with that? I'll probably open it to anyone retired in the last 6 months or so off the bat. [22:49:45] sounds good to me [22:49:54] No problem with it. [22:49:54] I feel comfortable with that. [22:50:01] Is good [22:50:25] Yeah it's good [22:50:53] Alright, what's next [22:51:08] Oh, maintenance drones [22:51:12] Paradox, you want to take this one? [22:51:26] Well, uh, I didn't really expect that to come up, but, alright [22:51:27] Whats the deal with maintdrones? [22:51:39] It's not even that big an issue, just a remark I made yesterday or the day before. [22:52:02] mhmm [22:52:26] Well, I was just talking about the fact that maint drones were initially designed to just be a way to pass the time in another way than mouse or ghost during a round [22:52:29] There was concern among a few staff members and players that the scope of maintenance drones has gone too far. The incident that triggered it was one ejecting the SM. While they shouldn't be impacting the round much, the concern was that stopping a delam was a pretty serious impact [22:52:43] *** Quits: TOG (simpleirc@sorcery-q42kgf.6614.aegr.100c.2600.IP) (Connection closed) [22:52:49] Well, go ahead Raptor. [22:53:06] I mean, we could just allow construction drones [22:53:25] Also unrelated but I have a comment to make at the end of the meeting assuming my battery doesn't die by then. [22:53:42] I think the problem with drones is that they have way too many available tools right now. In fact, a drone is better in some aspects than an engineering cyborg. [22:54:04] How so? [22:54:32] mobility, able to hide. [22:54:41] Generally ignored [22:54:56] On the other side, they do have much smaller reserves of material [22:55:08] They also dont have to listen to the crew [22:55:12] And they physically cannot move most large stuff [22:55:19] And they can jump in disposals to get to anywhere fast. [22:55:26] Unless it got fixed, they can. [22:55:30] They can only move objects marked as tiny or whitelisted larger objects. [22:55:31] Well, they are basically law bound to ignore everyone so there's little reason not to ignore them in turn unless they act out of place [22:55:31] They can't pull, but they can push canisters [22:55:59] Pushing may need looking at [22:56:36] To be specific, just from briefly looking at their code. Engiborgs don't have sheet loader to fill lathes and they don't have wood or plastic in terms of resources. [22:56:40] Anyway, I'm fond of the little drons myself, but may be one who can be seen as one who abuses their mechanics as well. [22:56:46] Drones have those. Among other tools. [22:56:48] Well... What exactly are we trying to accomplish with maintenance drones? [22:57:10] Let's look at what we generally want first, and determine if their current build fits what we want. [22:57:16] Cyborgs can also ask crew to man those things, drones can't. You know how hard it is to fix an APC if there's no boards, or batteries you can grab? [22:57:23] I think the idea was for a way for people to casually build/repair minor stuff [22:57:24] man the lathes* [22:57:28] And yeah [22:57:37] Drones are useful for fixing things. [22:58:01] And allowing you to stay out of the round. What I enjoyed about drone is no one even gave me a second glance when I randomly stopped moving due to admin things or lagging out [22:58:08] I think as long as they're repairing things not currently being interacted with, having an effect by fixing things is acceptable [22:58:09] And what do we constitute minor? Windows and walls? [22:58:11] try doing that as a crewmember [22:58:16] In my mind, drones were just made to do some small engie/janitorial stuff to pass the time instead of observing. Cleaning hallways, improving chairs and shit. But them becoming the emergency engineering service of the station... Not really a fan. [22:58:22] I think the idea of their extent was like, patching small holes, or rearranging furniture [22:58:29] maintenance drones are pretty much low material capacity engineering cyborgs with a non-interaction clause. They do exist to fix things, but for the most part they're a vehicle for more experienced players to putter around in without needing to engage in the round proper. [22:58:31] I wouldn't mind drones losing the cleaning aspect honestly. [22:58:50] janitors already have hard enough time finding work without drones cleaning all the blood [22:59:06] As paradox said, drones have become too efficient in fixing things. They should be able to do basic repairs, but not fix almost everything. [22:59:31] Station structure obviously. [22:59:32] They really only can do structural stuff assuming they follow laws [22:59:43] The big issue, I think, is their ephemerality (?) [22:59:44] IMO take away their ability to build girders and door frames, and give them an inflatable rack or something. :B [22:59:46] what about wiring/APCI repairs? [22:59:53] And at that they can't do reinforced walls or borosilicate glass [23:00:01] APC* [23:00:07] They can't do APC repairs without a human [23:00:12] Like, the incident Raptor mentioned was basically a ghost seeing the SM delaminating, joining as drone, ejecting the core and going back to ghosting [23:00:27] It'd also be nice if there was a certain level of control of them. Like, ability to input a custom command that is displayed to the drone via the drone control console. Or just expand the existing list of areas you can send them via the ping function. [23:00:34] Also, can we please remove their ability to resist out of being held at will? [23:00:35] They lost their grabber Snapshot? [23:00:45] The grabber can't pick up batteries I thought. [23:00:46] That seems more like an administration issue than necessarily a problem with the role itself para [23:00:54] It could last I checked Snapshot [23:00:57] and HarpyEagle, god no please. [23:01:04] Why? [23:01:11] Yeah, but it needs to be talked about because if we don't make rules on that, then we can't do anything about players doing it [23:01:13] I have enough issues of crewmembers grabbing me and carrying me around for the lulz [23:01:23] I'm running toward a breached area to fix it [23:01:25] Also they have the sheet loader so they can use a lathe. [23:01:35] someone picks me up, and carries me halfway across the station so they can point me to a broken light. [23:01:36] Stay away from crew members then? [23:01:37] * Ravensdale flails. [23:01:37] They have no way of accessing circuit boards without a human or a lathe. [23:01:43] It's part of how drones are supposed to behave [23:01:55] Drones aren't supposed to actively hide crew [23:01:58] Not interacting =/= avoiding [23:02:00] They're supposed to ignore them [23:02:00] I do hate to refer to the don't be a dick clause, but a ghost joining as a drone to eject the engine core and then ghosting again seems like a perfect match :p [23:02:00] Moving drones around is the only way to deal with them when they don't understand the idea of non-interaction [23:02:05] Plus you try avoiding people on dial-up [23:02:16] iirc all synthetics can dispense those basic circuits from EngiVend or whatever is that vendor at engineering called [23:02:21] Nope [23:02:22] Spookerton, they did it to eject a delaminating SM, sorry if I wasn't clear, given Raptor already explained the incident [23:02:29] No it was clear [23:02:30] But [23:02:32] HarpyEagle, the case mentioned *isn't* non-interaction [23:02:34] Drones can't interface with the enginievend [23:02:38] Then it would be an easy solution to the problem [23:02:51] They have code that prevents them with interfacing with most machines. [23:02:59] They joined, affected the round in a silent and major way, and then ghosted. [23:03:10] Whether they saved the station or fucked it, that's a dick move. [23:03:14] Yes and that's something that should be punishable [23:03:25] Acting on OOC information as well ICly [23:03:37] You don't need to punish everyone for the actions of one person. [23:03:53] I think. [23:04:09] Drones should have the 'improve' clause of their laws/directives removed. [23:04:10] Oh, let's just make things clear, I have no intention of punishing anyone nor chaning anything [23:04:13] they're there to fix things. [23:04:16] As it stands now, the problem isn't maintenance drones having access to things like plastic and wood. It's that engine drones don't. [23:04:26] And that's easily fixed. [23:04:41] To maintain things. [23:04:58] Replace broken lights, weld the cracks in the wall. Replace a broken window. Fix cut wiring, etc... [23:05:29] Keep in mind and I will iterate again [23:05:29] It's not even skirting. As described, it's abuse of mechanics. *shrug [23:05:42] Maintenance drones have very little metal [23:05:47] He also the other day explicilty bitched out other engineers [23:05:51] They also can't replace reinforced walls [23:05:55] and told them they should have abused mechanics to do their job -properly [23:05:56] which is lol [23:06:01] but also not relevant sorry [23:06:09] Alright, so we agree that joining for 30 seconds to do something like fix a delaminating engine is a shit, if they were drone for say, most of the round, and ended up fixing it during the process of the round, that's not abuse imo [23:06:19] Basically raptor, ye [23:06:27] Works for me. [23:06:29] Raptor I'll provide a counterpoint. [23:06:34] Yeah, it's a case by case treatment, I guess. [23:06:48] I played as a drone once and spent two hours rebuilding the engine only to fail [23:06:54] Right as the round ended [23:07:23] remove improve clause when [23:07:39] I'd also support removal of the "improve" part [23:07:46] As would I [23:07:52] They can't do much to improve anyway [23:08:05] Well... I guess it wouldn't hurt. [23:08:09] Improve doesn't cover the SM problem [23:08:17] They're /maintenance/ drones, after all. [23:08:19] what would removing improve change? [23:08:26] Pop up floor tiles and replace it with wood flooring? :P [23:08:26] Stop them adding chairs and shit to arrivals? [23:08:27] Personally I've always taken "improve" to mean like, building a layer of rod floor around the outside of the station to make spacewalks safer, rather than replacing the engine though. [23:08:32] Could expand the access system a bit to also include "but if you have this access you're still denied" [23:09:01] I feel were going off track [23:09:05] And give things like the SM vent/ending buttons deny-drone access checks [23:09:21] Drones are players too. I don't see why they need to be gimped [23:09:25] they so rarely cause any issues [23:09:30]