[00:00.000 --> 00:03.000]  they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities.
[00:03.000 --> 00:20.400]  Good evening and welcome. I'm Amna Nawaz. Judy Woodruff is away. On the NewsHour tonight,
[00:20.400 --> 00:25.800]  a verdict. A jury orders conspiracy theorist Alex Jones to pay the families of the Sandy
[00:25.800 --> 00:32.120]  Hook massacre nearly one billion dollars in damages. Then the Saudi connection. The United
[00:32.120 --> 00:37.240]  States reevaluates its relationship with the kingdom over a cut in oil production that's
[00:37.240 --> 00:43.840]  pushing up gas prices. And first-time voters. Young adults in Wisconsin discuss their hopes
[00:43.840 --> 00:49.360]  for the country's future and whether politicians are listening to their concerns. I've been
[00:49.360 --> 00:52.800]  very politically engaged throughout high school and I'm excited to get my foot in the door
[00:52.800 --> 01:09.600]  and actually have a voice in my government. All that and more on tonight's PBS NewsHour.
[01:09.600 --> 01:23.680]  Major funding for the PBS NewsHour has been provided by.
[01:23.680 --> 01:44.600]  Moving our economy for 160 years. BNSF, the engine that connects us.
[01:44.600 --> 01:52.520]  Pediatric surgeon. Volunteer. Topiary artist. A Raymond James financial advisor. Taylor's
[01:52.520 --> 02:05.960]  advice to help you live your life. Life well planned. The Walton Family Foundation, working
[02:05.960 --> 02:15.000]  for solutions to protect water during climate change so people and major can thrive together.
[02:15.000 --> 02:19.200]  Supported by the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, committed to building
[02:19.200 --> 02:29.080]  a more just and peaceful world. More information at Mac found. And with the ongoing support
[02:29.080 --> 02:40.400]  of these institutions. This program was made possible by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting
[02:40.400 --> 02:50.680]  and by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you. Thank you. A jury in Connecticut
[02:50.680 --> 02:57.480]  has ordered conspiracy theorist Alex Jones to pay nearly $1 billion in damages for defamation.
[02:57.480 --> 03:03.360]  The host of the Infowar show had claimed the 2012 Sandy Hook School massacre was a hoax.
[03:03.360 --> 03:09.040]  Relatives of eight of the 26 victims and an FBI agent brought the suit. They said today's
[03:09.040 --> 03:16.120]  verdict is a hard fought victory. All I can really say is that I'm just proud that what
[03:16.120 --> 03:21.400]  we were able to accomplish was just to simply tell the truth. And it shouldn't be this hard
[03:21.400 --> 03:28.600]  and it shouldn't be this scary. I shouldn't have to worry about what my daughter is going
[03:28.600 --> 03:34.000]  to go through when I tell them that it's best that they just tell the truth. Jones already
[03:34.000 --> 03:39.840]  faced a $50 million penalty that a Texas jury imposed in August. We'll return to this story
[03:39.840 --> 03:44.920]  later in the program. A jury in South Florida has begun deliberating on whether Parkland
[03:44.920 --> 03:50.080]  school shooter Nicholas Cruz will be sentenced to death. Cruz already pleaded guilty to killing
[03:50.080 --> 03:56.080]  17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in 2018. He's now 24 years old. The
[03:56.080 --> 04:01.760]  defense is asking for life in prison without parole. In Ukraine, seven more people were
[04:01.760 --> 04:07.760]  killed today as Russia fired more missiles, drones and artillery rounds into major cities.
[04:07.760 --> 04:12.940]  In all, the new Russian offensive has killed at least 26 people since Monday. The latest
[04:12.940 --> 04:18.100]  attacks came as US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and other NATO defense ministers met
[04:18.100 --> 04:24.420]  in Brussels on bolstering Ukraine's weapons supply. And that resolve has only been heightened
[04:24.420 --> 04:33.040]  by the deliberate cruelty of Russia's new barrage against Ukraine cities. Those assaults
[04:33.040 --> 04:41.480]  on targets with no military purpose again reveal the malice of Putin's war of choice.
[04:41.480 --> 04:45.940]  Russian fire also knocked out power to the Zaporizhia nuclear plant for the second time
[04:45.940 --> 04:51.960]  in five days. And at the United Nations, the General Assembly voted overwhelmingly to condemn
[04:51.960 --> 04:57.440]  Russia's attempt to annex more of Ukraine. Russian President Vladimir Putin says Moscow
[04:57.440 --> 05:02.280]  is set to resume natural gas deliveries to Europe. He said today that the Nord Stream
[05:02.280 --> 05:08.160]  2 pipeline to Germany could still be used despite being damaged by explosions last month.
[05:08.160 --> 05:12.880]  Germany quickly rejected the offer as another attempt to renew Europe's dependence on Russian
[05:12.880 --> 05:19.280]  energy. New protests swept Iran today despite heavy police presence and an Internet outage
[05:19.280 --> 05:24.480]  that hindered communications. Demonstrators rallied in at least 19 cities over the death
[05:24.480 --> 05:30.640]  of Masa Amini in police custody. Women marched in the streets defiantly removing their mandatory
[05:30.640 --> 05:39.720]  hijabs. In Tehran, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei blamed foreign elements for the unrest.
[05:39.720 --> 05:43.680]  Some are either agents of the enemy or they are aligned with the enemy. Others are just
[05:43.680 --> 05:49.240]  excited. The first group must be dealt with by judicial and national security officials.
[05:49.240 --> 05:53.860]  The regime has carried out a violent crackdown on the protests. One human rights group estimated
[05:53.860 --> 05:59.600]  today that at least 200 people have been killed. Back in this country, the former head of the
[05:59.600 --> 06:04.400]  Los Angeles City Council has resigned her council seat over racist remarks that were
[06:04.400 --> 06:09.360]  leaked. Nury Martinez had already stepped down from her post as council president. On
[06:09.360 --> 06:13.900]  the leaked recording, Martinez and two other council members talked about protecting Latino
[06:13.900 --> 06:18.800]  voting power and made abusive remarks about other groups. The California Attorney General
[06:18.800 --> 06:23.680]  has announced he will look into the process for drawing new council districts. Former
[06:23.680 --> 06:28.580]  President Trump was ordered today to give a deposition in a defamation lawsuit. A federal
[06:28.580 --> 06:33.940]  judge issued the order in New York. Advice columnist E. Jean Carroll says Mr. Trump defamed
[06:33.940 --> 06:39.240]  her when he denied raping her in a department store dressing room in the mid 1990s. The
[06:39.240 --> 06:44.800]  former president's legal team has repeatedly tried to quash the lawsuit. The CDC today
[06:44.800 --> 06:50.420]  approved updated COVID-19 booster shots for children as young as five years old. The latest
[06:50.420 --> 06:55.560]  Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are tailored to better provide protection against the highly
[06:55.560 --> 07:01.600]  contagious Omicron variant. CDC approval came hours after the FDA authorized the boosters
[07:01.600 --> 07:06.900]  for the younger age group. And on Wall Street today, stocks ended slightly lower after news
[07:06.900 --> 07:13.240]  that wholesale inflation rose 8.5% in September from a year earlier. The Dow Jones Industrial
[07:13.240 --> 07:20.920]  Average lost 28 points to close at 29,210. The Nasdaq fell nine points, and the S&P 500
[07:20.920 --> 07:26.200]  slipped 11. Still to come on the news hour, President Biden's student loan forgiveness
[07:26.200 --> 07:31.920]  plan faces legal challenges. Reporters across the country share the latest on the races
[07:31.920 --> 07:50.160]  that could decide control of Congress, plus much more.
[07:50.160 --> 07:54.840]  As we reported, conspiracy theorist Alex Jones has been ordered to pay nearly one billion
[07:54.840 --> 08:00.520]  dollars, $965 million to be exact, for the lies he spread about the Sandy Hook Elementary
[08:00.520 --> 08:05.600]  School massacre in 2012. Jones had falsely claimed the attack that left more than two
[08:05.600 --> 08:11.400]  dozen people dead, including 20 children, was a hoax, and accused a grieving parent
[08:11.400 --> 08:17.040]  of being an actor in the days after the murders. A Texas jury awarded nearly $50 million in
[08:17.040 --> 08:22.000]  a separate damages trial this summer, and Jones likely faces yet another trial before
[08:22.000 --> 08:27.100]  the year is up. For some perspective on the scope of this award and what happens now,
[08:27.100 --> 08:32.840]  we turn to Jesse Gessen. He's a trial lawyer in California who works on both civil and
[08:32.840 --> 08:33.840]  criminal cases.
[08:33.840 --> 08:37.380]  Mr. Gessen, welcome to the news hour. Thank you for joining us. Let's just start with
[08:37.380 --> 08:43.020]  some context on this verdict. It is an enormous amount of money. What did you think when you
[08:43.020 --> 08:45.280]  heard the damages being awarded?
[08:45.280 --> 08:52.400]  Wow. Quite frankly, it's probably one of the largest defamation verdicts in U.S. history.
[08:52.400 --> 08:57.840]  Also, it's compensatory, meaning that there's still going to be punitive damages, which
[08:57.840 --> 09:05.920]  could be up to 10 times as much under the United States Constitution. So we're going
[09:05.920 --> 09:13.280]  to see probably this verdict at least, I would say at least double or triple or maybe even
[09:13.280 --> 09:14.720]  up to 10 times more.
[09:14.720 --> 09:19.000]  For anyone following the trial, I mean, it was an incredibly emotional trial, emotional
[09:19.000 --> 09:23.480]  testimony from the parents who've lost their children in the most horrific way. Does that
[09:23.480 --> 09:28.000]  — do you think — did that play a role in the size of the verdict that was eventually
[09:28.000 --> 09:30.000]  awarded?
[09:30.000 --> 09:39.160]  Assuredly. This verdict says two things. Number one, it says we hate Alex Jones. And number
[09:39.160 --> 09:46.920]  two, that we are inflamed and we feel that these parents have lost something very, very,
[09:46.920 --> 09:52.440]  very special to them and we're going to do our best to give it back to them with our
[09:52.440 --> 09:53.840]  verdict.
[09:53.840 --> 09:59.820]  We should point out, earlier this year, InfoWars and its parent company did file for bankruptcy
[09:59.820 --> 10:06.880]  protections. What kind of impact could that have on the amount that's actually paid out?
[10:06.880 --> 10:14.760]  Well, the verdict is against Alex Jones and the company. And so Alex Jones may end up
[10:14.760 --> 10:23.120]  filing for bankruptcy protection as well. His estimated net worth is anywhere between
[10:23.120 --> 10:34.280]  $175 to $270 million. So he may declare bankruptcy as well. But it is certainly possible that
[10:34.280 --> 10:40.320]  this verdict and the Texas verdict could be swept up into the bankruptcy and significantly
[10:40.320 --> 10:43.480]  decreased under U.S. bankruptcy law.
[10:43.480 --> 10:47.240]  You mentioned that Texas verdict. And I want to get your analysis on the difference you
[10:47.240 --> 10:52.600]  see between that Texas verdict that was around $50 million and was eventually knocked down
[10:52.600 --> 10:57.540]  because of state limits on those kinds of awards and the damages we saw awarded today.
[10:57.540 --> 11:03.520]  How do you see the difference between what unfolded in Texas and what happened in Connecticut?
[11:03.520 --> 11:11.440]  It's hard not to draw the inference that the two different jury pools are somewhat politically
[11:11.440 --> 11:18.000]  motivated. The compensatory damages in the Texas verdict was $4 million. The compensatory
[11:18.000 --> 11:27.840]  damages in the Connecticut verdict is $965 million. That's a $961 million difference
[11:27.840 --> 11:31.000]  in compensatory damages.
[11:31.000 --> 11:39.120]  We still have to see punitive damages in Connecticut. So the difference could be even far more striking.
[11:39.120 --> 11:46.360]  I think it's safe to say that the Connecticut verdict is a far liberal, more liberal jury
[11:46.360 --> 11:52.040]  pool. And that had to have factored into their verdict.
[11:52.040 --> 11:56.140]  We should also point out, we learned later today that Jones' lawyer has said they do
[11:56.140 --> 12:01.280]  plan to appeal. But, Mr. Gessen, we should remind folks, Mr. Jones was spreading these
[12:01.280 --> 12:08.000]  lies for years, right, saying that the whole attack was a hoax, that in some cases parents
[12:08.000 --> 12:11.400]  were responsible for the deaths of their own children.
[12:11.400 --> 12:14.880]  He's not alone in spreading some of these lies, though. And I wonder, as you look at
[12:14.880 --> 12:20.120]  this moment, what you think this verdict says in the way of a message it sends about the
[12:20.120 --> 12:25.200]  legal landscape surrounding holding those who spread misinformation accountable in some
[12:25.200 --> 12:26.200]  way.
[12:26.200 --> 12:36.800]  Well, if you're profiting off of conspiracy theories that are defamatory, that are obviously
[12:36.800 --> 12:46.320]  false, you need to watch yourself. And a litigant can prosper, clearly prosper, in two very
[12:46.320 --> 12:52.320]  separate forms. And I think that it sends a strong message to people that are making
[12:52.320 --> 12:56.100]  money on lies.
[12:56.100 --> 13:02.440]  And especially given that this isn't the end. We have the punitive damages verdict, and
[13:02.440 --> 13:08.320]  then we also have a third Sandy Hook lawsuit. So I think that it sends a strong message
[13:08.320 --> 13:14.000]  to people who are in the business of peddling conspiracies.
[13:14.000 --> 13:18.880]  That is Jesse Gessen, a trial attorney in California, joining us tonight. Mr. Gessen,
[13:18.880 --> 13:19.880]  thank you for your time.
[13:19.880 --> 13:34.640]  Thank you for having me.
[13:34.640 --> 13:39.200]  While relations between the White House and Saudi Arabia's ruling royal family are at
[13:39.200 --> 13:44.320]  a low point, and may be set to dive even lower, from President Biden's fighting words on the
[13:44.320 --> 13:49.440]  campaign trail, to recent Saudi-led cuts in global oil supplies, the status of the more
[13:49.440 --> 13:54.520]  than 75-year-old alliance is troubled. And many in the administration and on Capitol
[13:54.520 --> 13:56.480]  Hill want to reset.
[13:56.480 --> 13:59.600]  Nick Schifrin begins our coverage.
[13:59.600 --> 14:05.560]  One of the most colorful visits to the presidential cruiser was that of the ruler of Saudi Arabia.
[14:05.560 --> 14:10.920]  America's longest relationship with an Arab state began 77 years ago. Four-time elected
[14:10.920 --> 14:16.160]  U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt and Ibn Saud, the warrior monarch backed by a fanatical
[14:16.160 --> 14:21.840]  clergy, created a fundamental agreement, American security, in exchange for Saudi energy.
[14:21.840 --> 14:27.320]  But, today, that agreement must be reexamined. President Biden told CNN's Jake Tapper last
[14:27.320 --> 14:28.320]  night.
[14:28.320 --> 14:31.600]  There's going to be some consequences for what they have done with Russia.
[14:31.600 --> 14:36.320]  What the Saudis did with fellow OPEC leader Russia is the largest oil production cut in
[14:36.320 --> 14:42.000]  more than two years over U.S. warnings. It was announced by OPEC Secretary-General Haytham
[14:42.000 --> 14:43.000]  Al-Ghais.
[14:43.000 --> 14:49.480]  Yes, we are not endangering the energy markets. We are providing security, stability to the
[14:49.480 --> 14:50.480]  energy markets.
[14:50.480 --> 14:54.600]  At a price?
[14:54.600 --> 14:55.600]  Everything has a price.
[14:55.600 --> 15:00.560]  Including the U.S.-Saudi relationship. In the 1970s, Saudi Arabia helped lead an oil
[15:00.560 --> 15:02.760]  embargo over U.S. support for Israel.
[15:02.760 --> 15:09.040]  You have declared a jihad against the United States. Can you tell us why?
[15:09.040 --> 15:13.860]  The kingdom claims it fights the fires of radicalism, but critics call it the arsonist.
[15:13.860 --> 15:19.840]  The Saudi Osama bin Laden sparked global attacks against the West and its Arab allies.
[15:19.840 --> 15:23.480]  Fifteen of 9-11 hijackers were Saudi.
[15:23.480 --> 15:28.600]  And decades of criticism of Saudi Arabia's poor human rights record crescendoed in 2018,
[15:28.600 --> 15:33.240]  after journalist Jamal Khashoggi walked into the Saudi Istanbul's consulate, was murdered
[15:33.240 --> 15:35.080]  and cut into pieces.
[15:35.080 --> 15:39.520]  The U.S. intelligence community assessed the operation was approved by the kingdom's powerful
[15:39.520 --> 15:44.460]  crown prince and future king, Mohammed bin Salman. The following year, candidate Joe
[15:44.460 --> 15:46.600]  Biden promised punishment.
[15:46.600 --> 15:51.640]  We were going to, in fact, make them pay the price and make them, in fact, the pariah that
[15:51.640 --> 15:52.640]  they are.
[15:52.640 --> 15:57.280]  But that proved to be a speed bump that preceded this year's fist bump. President Biden and
[15:57.280 --> 16:02.120]  his team worked with MBS, an acknowledgment the kingdom has helped the U.S. for decades
[16:02.120 --> 16:04.180]  across continents.
[16:04.180 --> 16:09.440]  In the late 70s, Saudi Arabia provided crucial support for the Afghan Mujahideen to defeat
[16:09.440 --> 16:13.740]  the Soviet military and help collapse the Soviet Union.
[16:13.740 --> 16:19.080]  In the early 90s, Saudi Arabia invited the largest U.S. overseas deployment in decades.
[16:19.080 --> 16:24.160]  U.S. troops used the kingdom as a base to fight the Gulf War.
[16:24.160 --> 16:28.820]  After 9-11, the Bush administration held on to the alliance to cooperate on terrorism
[16:28.820 --> 16:32.080]  and target al-Qaida.
[16:32.080 --> 16:37.380]  And in 2017, President Trump made Saudi Arabia his first overseas stop. Saudi Arabia and
[16:37.380 --> 16:41.800]  its allies helped shift U.S. regional policy.
[16:41.800 --> 16:46.840]  And Riyadh-Washington cooperation helped lead to the historic 2020 normalization agreements
[16:46.840 --> 16:49.880]  between Israel, Bahrain and the UAE.
[16:49.880 --> 16:54.480]  Today, the Biden administration is releasing our national security strategy.
[16:54.480 --> 16:59.520]  Today, the U.S. acknowledges it's well aware that the relationship provides benefits. But
[16:59.520 --> 17:04.240]  the administration will review the relationship and consult lawmakers, including Democrats
[17:04.240 --> 17:07.800]  who today called for a one-year block on weapons sales.
[17:07.800 --> 17:14.480]  Saudi Arabia has broken trust with America. And it needs to come to its senses.
[17:14.480 --> 17:19.320]  The U.S.-Saudi relationship has survived previous challenges. The administration says there's
[17:19.320 --> 17:21.360]  no timetable for its review.
[17:21.360 --> 17:25.060]  For the PBS NewsHour, I'm Nick Schifrin.
[17:25.060 --> 17:28.860]  Representative Ro Khanna of California is a member of the House Armed Services Committee
[17:28.860 --> 17:33.880]  and is spearheading the House version of that bill to end U.S. arms sales to Saudi Arabia
[17:33.880 --> 17:35.160]  for one year.
[17:35.160 --> 17:36.160]  He joins me now.
[17:36.160 --> 17:38.940]  Congressman, welcome back to the NewsHour. Thank you for joining us.
[17:38.940 --> 17:43.360]  You have said the U.S. needs to immediately, immediately halt those arms sales. We should
[17:43.360 --> 17:49.120]  note this has been proposed before in many times by many other people. It has never moved
[17:49.120 --> 17:50.120]  forward.
[17:50.120 --> 17:52.240]  Why do you think that this moment is different?
[17:52.240 --> 17:55.800]  REP. RO KHANNA, U.S. Armed Services Committee This is a defining moment, just like the War
[17:55.800 --> 18:00.600]  Powers Resolution that stopped the refueling of the Saudi planes that Senator Sanders and
[18:00.600 --> 18:04.240]  I led past after Khashoggi's murder.
[18:04.240 --> 18:08.800]  This is another moment that has really outraged people on both sides of the aisle on Capitol
[18:08.800 --> 18:14.480]  Hill. Saudi Arabia is in gratitude. We provide them with 70-some percent of their arms. We
[18:14.480 --> 18:21.200]  stood up for them when Saddam Hussein was going to invade after Saddam had invaded Kuwait.
[18:21.200 --> 18:25.880]  And Saudi planes literally couldn't fly if it weren't for American technicians, yet they
[18:25.880 --> 18:32.640]  are fleecing the American public, making about $100 billion in 2022. There need to be consequences.
[18:32.640 --> 18:36.600]  We provide them with all those things you just listed, but also they provide us with
[18:36.600 --> 18:42.320]  crucial intelligence, counterterrorism intelligence, specifically the U.S. relies on for national
[18:42.320 --> 18:47.760]  security purposes. Could imposing consequences in whatever form compromise U.S. national
[18:47.760 --> 18:48.760]  security?
[18:48.760 --> 18:55.160]  No, it will not. They are far more reliant on us. In fact, the defense agreements that
[18:55.160 --> 19:00.280]  we have, the joint defense initiatives, are more extensive than almost any other major
[19:00.280 --> 19:05.280]  ally and that's all to Saudi's benefit. The production is there, the jobs are there. So,
[19:05.280 --> 19:10.960]  they are far more dependent on us and they already are making these drastic cuts and
[19:10.960 --> 19:16.640]  they're making drastic cuts at a time when they're making 70 percent profit margins on
[19:16.640 --> 19:21.000]  each barrel of oil. Why are they doing it? They're doing it to help Putin because Putin
[19:21.000 --> 19:26.400]  doesn't have those profit margins. He's selling his oil at a discount of $35 a barrel to China
[19:26.400 --> 19:31.760]  and other countries. So, to appease Putin, they're hurting the American consumer at the
[19:31.760 --> 19:36.120]  pump and that just won't stand and we have far more leverage over them than they do over
[19:36.120 --> 19:37.120]  us.
[19:37.120 --> 19:40.800]  We are assuming also that leverage would force them to move away from Russia, but it is a
[19:40.800 --> 19:45.280]  gamble. What if it backfires? What if they further cut oil production? What if they just
[19:45.280 --> 19:48.640]  end up moving further towards Russia and China?
[19:48.640 --> 19:53.760]  Well, they cannot move further towards Russia and China in the near term. It would take
[19:53.760 --> 19:58.960]  almost 10 years for them to be able to get the weapons that we provide just because of
[19:58.960 --> 20:03.920]  interoperability of these weapons and literally the Air Force would be grounded to a halt
[20:03.920 --> 20:08.160]  tomorrow if they didn't have American technicians and now maybe it would take years for them
[20:08.160 --> 20:13.240]  to build with Russia and China, but they simply could not do that. In terms of cuts, they've
[20:13.240 --> 20:18.680]  cut already so far. I don't think further cuts would be possible. We're talking about
[20:18.680 --> 20:24.360]  a million barrels of cut. They've cut two million barrels and other countries in OPEC,
[20:24.360 --> 20:30.960]  the UAE, Kuwait, would make up for it if they went for further cuts. So, they already have
[20:30.960 --> 20:33.220]  taken the most drastic action.
[20:33.220 --> 20:36.920]  What about Iran in all this, Representative Khanna? I mean, none of this unfolds in a
[20:36.920 --> 20:41.800]  vacuum. The U.S. foreign policy in the region is structured largely around Saudi Arabia.
[20:41.800 --> 20:46.760]  Just this summer, the U.S. approved two new massive arms deals for Saudi Arabia and the
[20:46.760 --> 20:52.720]  United Arab Emirates specifically to help them defend against Iran. Does cutting Saudi
[20:52.720 --> 20:54.600]  arms sales empower Iran?
[20:54.600 --> 20:59.220]  No, it doesn't, and I was opposed to those arms sales. Let's not forget that the Saudis
[20:59.220 --> 21:04.960]  are responsible for one of the biggest humanitarian crises in the world in Yemen. It is appalling
[21:04.960 --> 21:09.160]  what they've done to the children there. It's appalling the starvation they've caused. It's
[21:09.160 --> 21:13.560]  appalling that they're continuing to blockade. Now, the Houthis are also to blame and the
[21:13.560 --> 21:19.000]  Iranians are to blame in Yemen as well, but the Saudis have been the principal perpetrators
[21:19.000 --> 21:21.960]  of that war.
[21:21.960 --> 21:27.560]  And so, I don't think that the balance, cutting off these arms sales are suddenly going to
[21:27.560 --> 21:33.760]  make them vulnerable to Iran. And I've spoken out very strongly for the students, for the
[21:33.760 --> 21:40.400]  women protesting in Iran. I believe there are other ways that we can contain Iran, but
[21:40.400 --> 21:45.840]  we should not use a Kissingerian balance of power where we end up supporting brutal dictators
[21:45.840 --> 21:50.640]  at the expense of our own public because of some balance of power politics in the Middle
[21:50.640 --> 21:51.640]  East.
[21:51.640 --> 21:55.600]  What do you believe that President Biden could have done differently in this moment? I mean,
[21:55.600 --> 22:00.760]  he went from calling Saudi Arabia a pariah to visiting Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman
[22:00.760 --> 22:04.800]  in July at the fist bump scene around the world. Do you think there's anything that
[22:04.800 --> 22:08.720]  the president of this administration could have done differently to avoid this moment?
[22:08.720 --> 22:13.600]  Yes, I don't think he should have gone to Saudi Arabia. Senator Sanders and I took to
[22:13.600 --> 22:20.600]  the papers to say that the trip was misguided. I believe he should have been clearer with
[22:20.600 --> 22:26.360]  the Saudis that there would be very drastic consequences, both if they didn't lift the
[22:26.360 --> 22:31.080]  blockade, which they still haven't in Yemen. And now they're talking about actually not
[22:31.080 --> 22:37.080]  following through on the truce in Yemen, but certainly externally drastic consequences
[22:37.080 --> 22:40.020]  if they cut oil production.
[22:40.020 --> 22:44.320]  So I believe that he could have been clearer on all of those things. Now, I'm glad that
[22:44.320 --> 22:51.400]  he's contemplating action now. And my belief is, if we are tough enough, they will reverse
[22:51.400 --> 22:52.400]  the decision.
[22:52.400 --> 22:56.360]  You said he's contemplating action. We've heard the consequences, but no specifics.
[22:56.360 --> 23:01.680]  In your talks with the administration, how serious are they in imposing serious and immediate
[23:01.680 --> 23:02.680]  consequences?
[23:02.680 --> 23:10.800]  They have told me that the president is going to take action, that the president is reexamining
[23:10.800 --> 23:18.120]  the Saudi relationship, and that the action is imminent. And so I believe the president
[23:18.120 --> 23:25.200]  has to act. How can you allow a country that is a, quote-unquote, ally to continue to profit
[23:25.200 --> 23:29.180]  of the American public and make drastic cuts when we're going through one of the bigger
[23:29.180 --> 23:32.400]  energy crises we have in recent decades?
[23:32.400 --> 23:35.800]  Allies don't treat each other that way.
[23:35.800 --> 23:41.260]  More broadly, U.S. officials did reportedly warn Saudi leaders that a cut in production
[23:41.260 --> 23:46.320]  would be seen as a clear choice they're siding with Russia, and the Saudis did it anyway.
[23:46.320 --> 23:50.120]  What does that say to you about how they view the U.S. right now?
[23:50.120 --> 23:55.640]  Well, they don't think that there are going to be consequences, but I believe they should
[23:55.640 --> 24:02.000]  take a temperature one of many of the younger members of Congress who aren't steeped in
[24:02.000 --> 24:07.040]  the same traditional relationship with Saudi, who basically know Saudi Arabia through the
[24:07.040 --> 24:12.320]  prism of the Yemen war and the humanitarian crisis that they have caused.
[24:12.320 --> 24:17.240]  They should remember that the War Powers Resolution stopping our aid passed the House and the
[24:17.240 --> 24:22.760]  Senate, the only time a War Powers Resolution has ever passed. And they should know that
[24:22.760 --> 24:27.480]  now there are going to be consequences. You have not just Senator Blumenthal and I calling
[24:27.480 --> 24:32.200]  for it, but Senator Menendez, a very respected foreign policy voice who chairs the Senate
[24:32.200 --> 24:37.240]  Foreign Relations Committee, calling for it. So they are really hurting their relationship
[24:37.240 --> 24:38.240]  on the Hill.
[24:38.240 --> 24:42.680]  Briefly, if you can, Representative, the Saudis have said this was economic, their decision
[24:42.680 --> 24:46.360]  to cut oil production. Do you believe it had anything to do with the timing of the upcoming
[24:46.360 --> 24:47.360]  midterm elections?
[24:47.360 --> 24:52.700]  I don't know, but I know it's not economic when they're making over 70 percent profits
[24:52.700 --> 24:57.760]  on your barrels of oil. Look, I've been critical of Exxon and Chevron, but it pales into the
[24:57.760 --> 25:03.440]  comparison into what the Saudis are making on oil. So what I do know is that they have
[25:03.440 --> 25:10.480]  chosen deliberately to hurt Americans at the pump. Look, I don't think the timing is coincidental,
[25:10.480 --> 25:14.640]  but I have no evidence of why they've taken that decision. All I know is that they're
[25:14.640 --> 25:16.600]  hurting the American public.
[25:16.600 --> 25:21.100]  That is Representative Ro Khanna, Democrat from California and member of the House Armed
[25:21.100 --> 25:24.400]  Services Committee. Thank you so much for your time.
[25:24.400 --> 25:36.840]  Thank you.
[25:36.840 --> 25:41.200]  President Biden's executive order to cancel student debt is facing its most serious legal
[25:41.200 --> 25:46.280]  challenge to date. A federal judge in Missouri heard arguments today from six states hoping
[25:46.280 --> 25:48.600]  to block the plan from taking effect.
[25:48.600 --> 25:56.720]  To qualify for the student loan program, individuals must make less than $125,000 a year or $250,000
[25:56.720 --> 26:02.200]  for married couples and families. Eligible borrowers can receive up to $10,000 in forgiveness
[26:02.200 --> 26:06.560]  or up to $20,000 if they are Pell Grant recipients.
[26:06.560 --> 26:10.360]  White House correspondent Laura Baron-Lopez has been following it all, and she joins me
[26:10.360 --> 26:14.360]  now as part of our series, Rethinking College. Laura, good to see you.
[26:14.360 --> 26:15.360]  Good to see you.
[26:15.360 --> 26:19.120]  So let's talk about this case that was heard today in Missouri. What exactly are the states
[26:19.120 --> 26:20.120]  arguing?
[26:20.120 --> 26:24.960]  So there are six Republican states, including Nebraska, Missouri, Arkansas, and they're
[26:24.960 --> 26:30.280]  arguing that the administration's debt relief program is illegal on three fronts. Those
[26:30.280 --> 26:37.400]  three fronts are that the administration lacks authority, that they did not follow administrative
[26:37.400 --> 26:43.400]  procedure and that it harms state revenue. So today we spoke to Arkansas Attorney General
[26:43.400 --> 26:49.100]  Leslie Rutledge, and she really focused on whether or not the president has authority
[26:49.100 --> 26:53.280]  to do this and took direct aim at him.
[26:53.280 --> 26:58.360]  The president did not have the authority to make this decision. He made this decision
[26:58.360 --> 27:05.160]  and based it on the Heroes Act, which essentially was put in place during the Iraq war in order
[27:05.160 --> 27:10.520]  to give relief to our brave men and women in uniform. And it was also, as part of it,
[27:10.520 --> 27:15.160]  it could be used during a national emergency. Unfortunately, President Biden forgot that
[27:15.160 --> 27:20.400]  he declared the pandemic over a few short weeks ago.
[27:20.400 --> 27:24.600]  As you heard Attorney General Rutledge there saying that she thinks the president doesn't
[27:24.600 --> 27:28.960]  have this authority. But what was interesting in the arguments today was that the Missouri
[27:28.960 --> 27:35.700]  judge Henry Autry essentially really scrutinized that saying, why is the president being sued
[27:35.700 --> 27:41.060]  as a part of this lawsuit and questioning whether or not the Republican states had standing
[27:41.060 --> 27:46.160]  against the president versus standing against the education department and the education
[27:46.160 --> 27:47.160]  secretary.
[27:47.160 --> 27:51.160]  So a main part of their argument is the administration doesn't even have the authority to do this.
[27:51.160 --> 27:53.440]  What has the Biden administration been saying about this?
[27:53.440 --> 27:59.180]  The Biden administration is essentially saying that they were granted this authority under
[27:59.180 --> 28:05.760]  a 2003 higher education law, also known as the Heroes Act. And so today, Deputy Assistant
[28:05.760 --> 28:13.320]  Attorney General Brian Netter argued that the pandemic gives them this authority.
[28:13.320 --> 28:17.360]  It's crucial here that this is a statute about emergencies. It's a statute about national
[28:17.360 --> 28:22.480]  emergencies. And it seems hard to fathom that Congress wouldn't have understood at the time
[28:22.480 --> 28:27.140]  that a larger national emergency is going to prompt and necessitate a larger action
[28:27.140 --> 28:29.920]  by the Secretary of Education.
[28:29.920 --> 28:35.320]  And so essentially, Netter there is saying that as the economic hardships were growing
[28:35.320 --> 28:41.440]  due to the COVID pandemic, so does the power of the Education Secretary Miguel Cardona.
[28:41.440 --> 28:49.620]  Those powers grow as well, they grow with it. And he specifically argued against this
[28:49.620 --> 28:55.080]  front that the states were bringing forward saying that this national emergency statute
[28:55.080 --> 29:00.760]  only applies to specific military activity. It applies to military members, service members.
[29:00.760 --> 29:05.160]  And Netter said, no, historically, that's not the case under this law. That, look, when
[29:05.160 --> 29:10.120]  you think about a hurricane, government doesn't provide relief just when the hurricane is
[29:10.120 --> 29:11.120]  spinning.
[29:11.120 --> 29:17.080]  He said that after a national emergency happens or a national disaster like that, that the
[29:17.080 --> 29:21.160]  government has to help people come out of that, come out of the economic hardships or
[29:21.160 --> 29:24.400]  the infrastructure hardships that are brought upon by national emergencies.
[29:24.400 --> 29:28.480]  Laura, what about the whole racial equity part of this? We heard the Biden administration
[29:28.480 --> 29:32.920]  message that as an underpinning to why they were rolling out this loan forgiveness plan.
[29:32.920 --> 29:37.440]  They said it would especially help black borrowers. How does that factor into their argument?
[29:37.440 --> 29:44.040]  So the states today were saying this is only going to provide relief to wealthy individuals,
[29:44.040 --> 29:48.980]  to higher income individuals. And what the administration essentially is saying back
[29:48.980 --> 29:54.660]  is that, well, you have to look at actually who the borrowers are for these loan programs.
[29:54.660 --> 30:00.220]  And for the loan forgiveness program, it would significantly impact black borrowers. Specifically,
[30:00.220 --> 30:06.360]  the average debt for black borrowers is 10,000 more than for white borrowers. Also, Pell
[30:06.360 --> 30:09.520]  Grant recipients are twice as likely to be black.
[30:09.520 --> 30:15.640]  Now, another big piece of this is the federal family education loan borrowers, which was
[30:15.640 --> 30:19.600]  at first a part of the announcement when the administration said they were going to provide
[30:19.600 --> 30:25.080]  this big cancellation of debt. Then they ended up taking that out of the guidance saying
[30:25.080 --> 30:30.840]  that these borrowers would not provide, would not be given this relief. And that was a big
[30:30.840 --> 30:37.080]  piece of this, this lawsuit, because essentially, you know, the states are arguing that they
[30:37.080 --> 30:46.720]  get state revenues from the companies that take on that, those loans from those borrowers.
[30:46.720 --> 30:52.080]  But the government is saying that ultimately the relief provided to these borrowers is
[30:52.080 --> 30:58.240]  far outweighs the state revenue that would ultimately be lost. Now, again, on the FFEL
[30:58.240 --> 31:02.800]  borrowers, the federal family loan borrowers, the administration has tried to make clear
[31:02.800 --> 31:07.660]  that while they may not receive relief now, that ultimately the education department is
[31:07.660 --> 31:09.920]  trying to find an alternative pathway for them.
[31:09.920 --> 31:13.560]  Before anyone can get any relief, they have to fill out an application. We've been anticipating
[31:13.560 --> 31:17.800]  the release of that application form from the White House. What do we know about that?
[31:17.800 --> 31:23.760]  So they just issued a preview of this application form this week, the White House did. And essentially
[31:23.760 --> 31:28.280]  what borrowers have to do, they have to give social security numbers, their date of birth,
[31:28.280 --> 31:33.960]  their email, but they also have to click this box that certifies under penalty of perjury
[31:33.960 --> 31:39.320]  that they meet the income thresholds. Now, some of those borrowers will be provided just
[31:39.320 --> 31:45.000]  based on that certification will be provided relief. Others are going to have to show more
[31:45.000 --> 31:50.840]  proof that they meet those income thresholds that you outlined earlier. Now, I spoke to
[31:50.840 --> 31:54.520]  White House assistant press secretary Abdullah Hassan today, and he said that essentially
[31:54.520 --> 31:58.480]  as the lawsuit is proceed, as the lawsuits are proceeding, because there's more than just the one
[31:58.480 --> 32:02.880]  we talked about today, that the White House is going to still move forward with implementing
[32:02.880 --> 32:09.120]  this plan. Now, no relief is going to be felt prior to October 23rd, but the application
[32:09.120 --> 32:11.640]  process is going to be rolled out this month.
[32:11.640 --> 32:16.040]  So folks can check that out and start to apply if they are eligible. White House correspondent
[32:16.040 --> 32:18.880]  Laura Baron Lopez following it all. Thank you so much.
[32:18.880 --> 32:30.240]  Thank you.
[32:30.240 --> 32:34.240]  Election night is less than a month away, and we're digging into some key races that
[32:34.240 --> 32:40.160]  could determine the balance of power in Congress. Lisa Desjardins has more.
[32:40.160 --> 32:45.120]  Let's talk about control of the House of Representatives. To take over the House, Republicans need to
[32:45.120 --> 32:50.960]  gain just five total seats next month net. Their party may have a slight advantage from
[32:50.960 --> 32:56.600]  redistricting, but there are dozens of competitive races, including more than 30 currently rated
[32:56.600 --> 33:01.600]  as toss-ups. To take a good look at the map, I'm joined by three public media reporters,
[33:01.600 --> 33:07.200]  Karen Kasler of Ohio Public Radio and Television, Scott Shafer with KQED in California, and
[33:07.200 --> 33:12.680]  Zoe Clark with Michigan Radio. So happy to have all of you together to talk about this.
[33:12.680 --> 33:18.120]  Each of your states has lost a congressional district because of redistricting, but you
[33:18.120 --> 33:23.520]  also each have a clutch of competitive races that could determine control of the House.
[33:23.520 --> 33:28.040]  I wonder if you can just set the mood for us. What's on voters' minds? Everything from
[33:28.040 --> 33:32.340]  the weather to redistricting to issues that you think might be affecting their vote. And
[33:32.340 --> 33:34.440]  let's start out, Wes, with you, Scott Shafer.
[33:34.440 --> 33:39.560]  Yeah, well, California has an unusual system for creating redistricting. It's a citizens'
[33:39.560 --> 33:43.760]  commission. It's not gerrymandering where the districts are designed to protect the
[33:43.760 --> 33:48.400]  incumbents. And so we have four to six competitive House races here in California, including
[33:48.400 --> 33:54.600]  probably two of the 10 most vulnerable Republicans, David Valadeo in the Central Valley and Mike
[33:54.600 --> 34:01.360]  Garcia in Los Angeles, both of them running in plus D districts where Democrats outnumber
[34:01.360 --> 34:03.000]  Republicans.
[34:03.000 --> 34:08.680]  In terms of the seat that we lost, Karen Bass decided not to run for re-election. She's
[34:08.680 --> 34:13.120]  the L.A. Congresswoman. She's now running for mayor of Los Angeles, which, of course,
[34:13.120 --> 34:16.560]  is dominating the headlines, not in very good ways.
[34:16.560 --> 34:21.640]  But in terms of issues, in terms of these congressional races, it's a competing narrative.
[34:21.640 --> 34:26.680]  Republicans want to talk about gas prices and the economy, and the Democrats want to
[34:26.680 --> 34:31.760]  talk about abortion rights and about threats to democracy. And so you've got these competing
[34:31.760 --> 34:36.440]  narratives that are playing out on the campaign trail and on television.
[34:36.440 --> 34:42.000]  And in addition, I would say that Republicans also want to talk about crime and immigration,
[34:42.000 --> 34:43.480]  much more so than abortion rights.
[34:43.480 --> 34:46.920]  Zoe Clark, what's going on in Michigan? I know it's college football season. Are those
[34:46.920 --> 34:49.240]  politics breaking through there in general?
[34:49.240 --> 34:54.200]  It actually is, if you can imagine. It's not just Spartans and Wolverines here in Michigan,
[34:54.200 --> 34:59.200]  although the weather always is something we talk about. No, much like what Scott said,
[34:59.200 --> 35:05.160]  indeed, it is about the economy. It is about inflation. It is about gas prices. But since
[35:05.160 --> 35:10.480]  the Dobbs decision here in Michigan, abortion really has become something that has changed
[35:10.480 --> 35:11.920]  the dynamic.
[35:11.920 --> 35:17.320]  We have a amendment that's going to be on the ballot in November that would enshrine
[35:17.320 --> 35:23.000]  reproductive rights, abortion rights, into the state constitution. And so on top of these,
[35:23.000 --> 35:28.840]  really must watch congressional seats, some of the most competitive in the country, abortion
[35:28.840 --> 35:33.240]  is sort of overshadowing the conversation when it comes to all of these races.
[35:33.240 --> 35:37.520]  Karen Kasler, is that what you're finding next door in Ohio, is abortion overshadowing
[35:37.520 --> 35:38.520]  other issues?
[35:38.520 --> 35:42.200]  Well, I can't let Zoe talk about those teams without mentioning the Ohio State Buckeyes
[35:42.200 --> 35:46.560]  and football here is, of course, dominating conversation. But yes, there's a lot of conversation
[35:46.560 --> 35:52.460]  also about the few competitive districts here. Our most competitive seat and race really
[35:52.460 --> 35:59.680]  is the Ohio U.S. Senate race. But in Ohio, we're starting early voting today. And it's
[35:59.680 --> 36:04.500]  interesting to note that Ohio went from 16 to 15 districts and majority Republicans drew
[36:04.500 --> 36:09.440]  maps that were ruled unconstitutional several times by the Ohio Supreme Court. We're actually
[36:09.440 --> 36:13.600]  running elections this year on maps that were ruled unconstitutional, but put into place
[36:13.600 --> 36:15.120]  by a federal court.
[36:15.120 --> 36:20.020]  And so while we are electing representatives through these maps this time around, those
[36:20.020 --> 36:26.020]  could change based on the results of what happens in the election next month. So there
[36:26.020 --> 36:31.380]  are only about there are 10 safe districts and five Democratic seats, but only a couple
[36:31.380 --> 36:32.880]  are really considered very competitive.
[36:32.880 --> 36:36.800]  Karen, I want to come back to you. I mean, talk to all of you about favorite races. But
[36:36.800 --> 36:41.540]  Karen, let's start there in Ohio and your favorite races. One that I'm watching there
[36:41.540 --> 36:48.200]  obviously is one of the longest serving women in Congress, Marcy Kaptur. That's a race where
[36:48.200 --> 36:52.800]  it's not just issues, but also the effect perhaps of President Trump and the 2020 election.
[36:52.800 --> 36:56.960]  Can you talk about that race and what you're watching there in that Toledo area?
[36:56.960 --> 37:01.160]  That race has really tightened up a lot. Marcy Kaptur running against a political newcomer,
[37:01.160 --> 37:07.980]  J.R. Majewski, who really broke out when he got the attention of Donald Trump by painting
[37:07.980 --> 37:12.960]  a picture of Trump on his lawn. And Trump shouted out to him at a rally. He ended up
[37:12.960 --> 37:19.560]  winning, beating some other established politicians. And now he and Marcy Kaptur are facing off.
[37:19.560 --> 37:27.000]  Majewski has made headlines recently because he has claimed that he saw combat in Afghanistan,
[37:27.000 --> 37:31.520]  but an investigation has shown that that's not the case. He also has said he was at the
[37:31.520 --> 37:37.080]  Capitol on January 6th. He has not been charged with anything. But that all of this has made
[37:37.080 --> 37:40.480]  this race a little bit more competitive. And House Republicans have actually pulled their
[37:40.480 --> 37:43.760]  ads in this race. So that really has tightened things up.
[37:43.760 --> 37:48.040]  Also, there's an open seat that features two women, Amelia Sykes, the former Democratic
[37:48.040 --> 37:53.680]  leader of the Ohio House, and Madison Jesseoto-Gilbert, a Trump endorsed Republican. This will make
[37:53.680 --> 37:58.720]  history in that one of those win and only 12 Ohio women have ever been elected to Congress
[37:58.720 --> 38:01.840]  from the state. So that's going to make history there with that race.
[38:01.840 --> 38:05.800]  That's fascinating. I like that Ohio 13 race, too, because that's a very Rust Belt seat
[38:05.800 --> 38:09.960]  that might tell us something about the Senate race as it evolves over the night.
[38:09.960 --> 38:15.180]  Speaking of, let's go back to you in Michigan then, Zoe. You have one of the most expensive
[38:15.180 --> 38:19.940]  House races in the country, among others that I know you're watching, where Alyssa Slotkin,
[38:19.940 --> 38:24.220]  the incumbent Democrat, is really kind of a must-win seat for Democrats if they have
[38:24.220 --> 38:26.080]  any hope of holding the House.
[38:26.080 --> 38:31.760]  Absolutely. And this district is fascinating. So it went for Donald Trump in 2016. It went
[38:31.760 --> 38:39.680]  for Trump in 2020. But Alyssa Slotkin has won it two times. So she's looking for a third
[38:39.680 --> 38:43.840]  win here now. It's going to be in the now seventh congressional district because of
[38:43.840 --> 38:49.600]  redistricting. And she's always outperformed as a Democrat. But she has a conservative
[38:49.600 --> 38:55.320]  Republican challenger, state Senator Tom Barrett. Again, like we've been talking about this
[38:55.320 --> 38:59.380]  narrative, he's trying to talk about the economy. He's trying to talk about inflation. He's
[38:59.380 --> 39:04.680]  trying to talk about Joe Biden. And I was just talking to Alyssa Slotkin, the Congresswoman
[39:04.680 --> 39:10.040]  today, and she's talking fundamentally about rights and what she wants to see happen change
[39:10.040 --> 39:14.600]  in D.C., including, interestingly enough, I thought, immigration, she said, in the state
[39:14.600 --> 39:17.880]  of Michigan, as well as the cost of child care.
[39:17.880 --> 39:23.160]  Meanwhile, we also have the third congressional district. Now, this one is just fascinating.
[39:23.160 --> 39:30.560]  This is where Peter Meyer, a freshman Republican, within the first few days of being sworn in,
[39:30.560 --> 39:36.560]  voted to impeach Donald Trump for the second time. And Peter Meyer lost his primary in
[39:36.560 --> 39:43.800]  August to a former Trump official, John Gibbs. And so this really is an open seat now. We
[39:43.800 --> 39:49.620]  have a Democrat running. It looks like it could lean Democrat more because of, again,
[39:49.620 --> 39:54.040]  this redistricting, but it probably would have been closer had Peter Meyer won this
[39:54.040 --> 39:55.040]  seat.
[39:55.040 --> 39:57.960]  But again, conservative Republicans kicked him out, booted him out and went with this
[39:57.960 --> 40:02.160]  Trump endorsed Republican instead. And it looks like this could be a Democratic win.
[40:02.160 --> 40:06.640]  Scott, you hear Zoe talking about a place that Democrats hope to flip in this year.
[40:06.640 --> 40:10.840]  I know you've got one of those, too, and you just mentioned it earlier. Tell us about Congressman
[40:10.840 --> 40:12.960]  David Valadeo and what you're seeing in California.
[40:12.960 --> 40:19.680]  Yeah, so he lost this seat in 2018 and then got it back in 2020. So he actually voted
[40:19.680 --> 40:23.520]  to impeach Donald Trump, but he's getting protection from that. Trump hasn't gone after
[40:23.520 --> 40:27.440]  him because his district is right next to Kevin McCarthy. In fact, it includes part
[40:27.440 --> 40:29.720]  of Bakersfield, his hometown.
[40:29.720 --> 40:35.320]  So he's running against Rudy Salas in a district that is 59% Latino. Rudy Salas would be the
[40:35.320 --> 40:42.100]  first Latino member of Congress from the Central Valley ever. He's also co-sponsored our Proposition
[40:42.100 --> 40:45.300]  1, which would enshrine abortion rights here in California.
[40:45.300 --> 40:52.000]  One other quickly, Lisa Race, I'm looking at the 41st congressional district in Riverside.
[40:52.000 --> 40:57.360]  Ken Calvert, 30-year Republican incumbent, has easily gotten reelected. But redistricting's
[40:57.360 --> 41:02.140]  taken out some of the most conservative parts of his district and added Palm Springs and
[41:02.140 --> 41:05.080]  other districts with a lot of LGBT voters.
[41:05.080 --> 41:09.520]  He has a history of anti-gay positions and campaigning, and he's running against an openly
[41:09.520 --> 41:15.140]  gay federal prosecutor who prosecuted some of the January 6th cases. And of course, Calvert
[41:15.140 --> 41:19.460]  did not vote to certify the election. So lots of interesting crosscurrents there.
[41:19.460 --> 41:23.480]  I've been hearing from you all about the 2020 election, some about former President Trump.
[41:23.480 --> 41:27.560]  I just want a show of hands on this last question, which might be a little unusual, but have
[41:27.560 --> 41:34.000]  you spoken to any Democrats in tough races in your states who would like President Biden
[41:34.000 --> 41:37.720]  to come and campaign for them? I want to see a hand if anyone has talked to a Democrat
[41:37.720 --> 41:39.680]  like that.
[41:39.680 --> 41:43.540]  So there we go. Both the former president and the current president seem to be on the
[41:43.540 --> 41:48.440]  ballot this year in the 2022 midterms. We are so grateful to all of you for joining
[41:48.440 --> 41:49.440]  us.
[41:49.440 --> 41:52.920]  Karen Kasler, Scott Shafer, Zoe Clark, thank you all.
[41:52.920 --> 41:53.920]  Thank you.
[41:53.920 --> 41:54.920]  Thanks.
[41:54.920 --> 41:56.960]  Great to be here.
[41:56.960 --> 42:02.320]  And thank you to our Lisa Desjardins. In another battleground state, Wisconsin, the Senate
[42:02.320 --> 42:06.400]  and governor's races are in the spotlight. And while younger Americans traditionally
[42:06.400 --> 42:11.560]  show up to the polls at lower rates than older generations, one recent study suggests young
[42:11.560 --> 42:16.200]  voters could play a decisive role in the state's elections this November.
[42:16.200 --> 42:20.800]  Judy Woodruff recently sat down with a group of high school and college students in Wisconsin
[42:20.800 --> 42:24.040]  who will be voting for the first time.
[42:24.040 --> 42:29.700]  Thank you so much for joining us for this conversation. We really appreciate it. You
[42:29.700 --> 42:34.940]  all, the reason we have you here is to talk about the fact that this is the first year
[42:34.940 --> 42:39.840]  you're going to be voting. And we want to talk about what that means to you. So Ryan,
[42:39.840 --> 42:43.960]  I'm going to start with you. How big a deal is it to you that you're going to be voting
[42:43.960 --> 42:44.960]  for the first time?
[42:44.960 --> 42:49.760]  I mean, it's a pretty big deal for me. I mean, I sort of see it as sort of like when you're
[42:49.760 --> 42:53.720]  16, you get your driver's license. When you're 18, you get to vote.
[42:53.720 --> 42:59.680]  I actually registered to vote in my AP government class on my birthday, which was a fun experience.
[42:59.680 --> 43:03.920]  It's very easy to register online now. I've been very politically engaged throughout high
[43:03.920 --> 43:08.720]  school and I'm excited to get my foot in the door and actually have a voice in my government.
[43:08.720 --> 43:14.680]  And Ben, you're turning 18 just in time to vote in early November. How big a deal for
[43:14.680 --> 43:15.680]  you?
[43:15.680 --> 43:21.120]  I am very excited to vote. Everyone in my family has always voted. And although not
[43:21.120 --> 43:25.800]  a ton of people my age do vote, as it's one of like the lower turnout groups, I'm very
[43:25.800 --> 43:32.460]  excited to vote because I think having that voice in our elections is really important.
[43:32.460 --> 43:36.880]  What is it that you care about a lot this year that is driving you especially to want
[43:36.880 --> 43:38.880]  to vote in 2022?
[43:38.880 --> 43:45.460]  I do see the candidates, but I see pro-choice and pro-life. Personally, I am extremely pro-choice.
[43:45.460 --> 43:49.000]  I've always grown up with the belief that women should be able to have bodily autonomy
[43:49.000 --> 43:50.100]  in our government.
[43:50.100 --> 43:54.760]  I agree with the pro-choice movement. I think women have been stripped of their bodily autonomy
[43:54.760 --> 43:59.320]  specifically in this state. And I think that it disproportionately affects women of color
[43:59.320 --> 44:03.660]  and women from more low-income communities. And the disproportionate effect that that
[44:03.660 --> 44:08.720]  has on their access to health care, their access to reproductive justice, their right
[44:08.720 --> 44:13.120]  to be a mother or to choose not to be, is frustrating to witness as somebody who can
[44:13.120 --> 44:18.560]  be subjected to these laws. So that for me is very top of mind.
[44:18.560 --> 44:22.200]  For me, it's our economy. I mean, I see on the decline, everything's getting more expensive.
[44:22.200 --> 44:27.040]  Our gas is more expensive. It's such a up and down. You don't know what's going to happen
[44:27.040 --> 44:31.680]  with it. And for me, it's scary. It's especially scary because with everything going on the
[44:31.680 --> 44:35.680]  rise, I have celiac disease. I already spend an arm and a leg for my food that's going
[44:35.680 --> 44:40.640]  to end up hurting people whenever they can't afford the food they need to feed their families.
[44:40.640 --> 44:47.180]  As the son of two teachers, education is a very big issue for me. I personally, I think
[44:47.180 --> 44:52.840]  that everyone should have access to quality education, whether that be good schools, good
[44:52.840 --> 44:58.240]  public education, or access to college and less college debt.
[44:58.240 --> 45:05.640]  I think my biggest issue is voting, really in terms of the amount of people that can't
[45:05.640 --> 45:10.960]  vote under our current system. We have a lot of laws in Wisconsin, especially voter ID
[45:10.960 --> 45:17.260]  laws, that make it very hard for people to vote. Another big thing on my mind is healthcare.
[45:17.260 --> 45:23.200]  Seeing Ron Johnson vote against the access to insulin was hugely disappointing to me
[45:23.200 --> 45:29.520]  as a diabetic. Seeing that it, while it does not directly affect me, there's many people
[45:29.520 --> 45:35.520]  in my situation where that bill would have hugely helped them and people are going to
[45:35.520 --> 45:39.240]  die if, when people make decisions like that.
[45:39.240 --> 45:43.520]  Let's talk about the person in office right now, President Biden. How do you think he's
[45:43.520 --> 45:44.520]  doing?
[45:44.520 --> 45:50.440]  I think that with any president, there will almost always be argument that they are not
[45:50.440 --> 45:56.760]  doing enough. And I think that I can say that about Biden right now, the new decision to
[45:56.760 --> 46:04.160]  pardon thousands of people on low level federal marijuana charges is a great decision. I think
[46:04.160 --> 46:10.760]  with his decision to help with student debt, though he campaigned on bigger promises, I
[46:10.760 --> 46:16.640]  think that at least he fulfilled it somewhat. And I think you can always ask for more, but
[46:16.640 --> 46:20.680]  I will say that I am relatively pleased with how he's doing so far.
[46:20.680 --> 46:25.360]  I believe that he's not delivering on campaign promises that he made, such as protecting
[46:25.360 --> 46:30.520]  our right to choose. I would like to see him do a bit more to serve the general American
[46:30.520 --> 46:31.520]  people.
[46:31.520 --> 46:32.880]  Is there one thing you'd like to see him do that he's not doing?
[46:32.880 --> 46:37.840]  I would like to see him codify Roe or make a more of a effort to. I know that he can
[46:37.840 --> 46:43.080]  actually write a lot to do so. I would like to see him protect that right. I would like
[46:43.080 --> 46:48.800]  to see him ask the Senate and ask the passive representatives to protect that right. I want
[46:48.800 --> 46:53.920]  to see him fight tooth and nail for that right, but I haven't seen that so far.
[46:53.920 --> 46:57.800]  Soren, what about you? What is your sense of how President Biden's doing?
[46:57.800 --> 47:02.080]  I quite don't like President Biden. Certainly wouldn't have been my first choice, nor would
[47:02.080 --> 47:05.960]  have Donald Trump been my first choice for this election or for the previous election.
[47:05.960 --> 47:09.960]  I think he's doing well enough for now, but I don't think he is doing enough.
[47:09.960 --> 47:12.920]  What do you think he should be doing that he's not doing?
[47:12.920 --> 47:19.160]  Well, for one, I think his Afghanistan pullout was a disaster. He left so many people. It
[47:19.160 --> 47:24.920]  was petrifying. He's not doing enough on the border. We have hundreds of thousands of people
[47:24.920 --> 47:29.920]  getting in, and it's scary knowing because you don't know who those people are. There's
[47:29.920 --> 47:36.160]  so much more that he could be doing that he's not. I don't know if he's made effort to try
[47:36.160 --> 47:37.320]  or not.
[47:37.320 --> 47:40.600]  Amaya, what is your sense of how President Biden's doing?
[47:40.600 --> 47:44.680]  I think if I had voted in the 2020 presidential election, I would have voted for Biden. I
[47:44.680 --> 47:48.700]  think he is not living up to the promises he made, but I don't know of any president
[47:48.700 --> 47:54.420]  that has, so I don't think that that's a fair standard to hold him at. I think as a firsthand
[47:54.420 --> 47:58.480]  recipient of what the student loan forgiveness was, my mom fought for the United States Army
[47:58.480 --> 48:03.000]  for four years, was a recipient of the GI Bill, got an associate's in nursing and still
[48:03.000 --> 48:08.920]  had loans. So for her to loans to be completely forgiven means an incredible amount.
[48:08.920 --> 48:14.840]  Well, I would like for Biden to have done more. We live in such a polarized country
[48:14.840 --> 48:21.860]  right now that despite his efforts to get things done, it's just so hard right now to
[48:21.860 --> 48:27.520]  get anything through, which is like, obviously, I'd like, you know, marijuana to be legalized.
[48:27.520 --> 48:33.200]  I'd like to live in a country where Roe is codified, where abortions are available. I'd
[48:33.200 --> 48:42.180]  love to live in a country where I don't have to worry about student loan debt, but it's
[48:42.180 --> 48:47.760]  just hard to get through all of that right now in how the state of America is today.
[48:47.760 --> 48:54.200]  A couple of you have mentioned or alluded to former President Trump. Amaya, what's your
[48:54.200 --> 48:56.320]  take on the former president?
[48:56.320 --> 49:01.960]  I grew up in a very isolated, a very white populated community, and I had never experienced
[49:01.960 --> 49:06.880]  the difference that I was black and to help Trump was in presidency, that complete isolation
[49:06.880 --> 49:12.000]  that was brought on just by this political figure we had among facilities in my community
[49:12.000 --> 49:15.600]  that were destroyed in the name of Trump. We had monuments that were destroyed in the
[49:15.600 --> 49:19.240]  name of Trump. We had people who were attacked in the name of Trump. And I think he brought
[49:19.240 --> 49:23.080]  out the worst in people and he supported and he didn't correct that behavior. And I believe
[49:23.080 --> 49:25.240]  no president would ever do that.
[49:25.240 --> 49:33.640]  He, by all accounts, disgraced America in the January 6th insurrection. Though the hearings
[49:33.640 --> 49:39.200]  are still going on, personally, I believe that he incited the insurrection and sent
[49:39.200 --> 49:47.720]  a mob of angry people to the Capitol, which is completely undemocratic. And he also did
[49:47.720 --> 49:53.840]  not facilitate a peaceful transfer of power, which has been an American tradition for hundreds
[49:53.840 --> 49:56.960]  of years, which upset me greatly.
[49:56.960 --> 50:01.280]  I did do support Trump and have for quite a while. I mean, during that time period,
[50:01.280 --> 50:07.520]  he had the nation, the best economic period we had for quite a long time. He kept us very
[50:07.520 --> 50:14.980]  well. Unfortunately, he did have his wrongdoings and has been a nasty person and has almost
[50:14.980 --> 50:21.560]  always been, but he also was the person, politically wise, he ran America as a business, in my
[50:21.560 --> 50:27.800]  opinion. He ran it as though that's what it was. And so running like a business, him being
[50:27.800 --> 50:33.360]  a businessman, allowed us to have financial gain, allowed us to prosper in those times
[50:33.360 --> 50:38.520]  until COVID had hit and which kind of tanked the entire world economy.
[50:38.520 --> 50:40.660]  Would you like to see him serve in office again?
[50:40.660 --> 50:41.660]  Most likely not.
[50:41.660 --> 50:42.660]  Why not?
[50:42.660 --> 50:49.160]  For the sole reason of just, it comes down to the rioting. It comes down to him being
[50:49.160 --> 50:53.860]  a nasty person. And I think the first four years is good, but I don't think another four
[50:53.860 --> 50:55.520]  years would be great.
[50:55.520 --> 50:59.620]  I will agree on Soren that the one thing, good thing I think Donald Trump ever did was
[50:59.620 --> 51:06.080]  with the economy. That is the only good thing I will say about him. I believe in this country
[51:06.080 --> 51:12.080]  we shouldn't have. It's sort of the massive division we have between Republican and Democrat
[51:12.080 --> 51:18.340]  because working together is how we fix things. And Donald Trump basically drove a gigantic
[51:18.340 --> 51:26.120]  wedge between people. He was such a polarizing figure that from 2016 onwards, country would
[51:26.120 --> 51:27.520]  never get anything done.
[51:27.520 --> 51:33.600]  As you all know, the percentage of people who vote of your generation, the youngest
[51:33.600 --> 51:40.660]  generation vote less frequently, a smaller percentage of you vote than the older folks
[51:40.660 --> 51:47.120]  do in the country. But I really do want to understand how you see the politicians listening
[51:47.120 --> 51:52.440]  or not listening to your generation right now.
[51:52.440 --> 51:56.600]  I do think that there has been efforts. I know several candidates throughout the past
[51:56.600 --> 52:02.000]  two years have been to campuses, have literally been outreached. They sit and they listen.
[52:02.000 --> 52:06.360]  But once they're elected into office, that stops. And that communication line is you're
[52:06.360 --> 52:10.540]  emailing a staffer or you're emailing a secretary. And the odds that it actually gets to that
[52:10.540 --> 52:15.360]  person is so slim to none that the reality that they're actually listening to the complaints
[52:15.360 --> 52:22.380]  of their own constituents is very like, I have no faith that they are listening to those.
[52:22.380 --> 52:27.640]  And so it's hard to say when I don't even know if they're hearing the issues that are
[52:27.640 --> 52:29.380]  happening in their communities.
[52:29.380 --> 52:35.040]  I feel like if we had more young voters and more people that voted as soon as 18 or as
[52:35.040 --> 52:38.560]  soon as they possibly could, I feel like we would have more politicians listen to our
[52:38.560 --> 52:40.960]  opinions, listening to what we want.
[52:40.960 --> 52:46.000]  I think that what politicians need to understand is that if you start politically engaging
[52:46.000 --> 52:50.720]  kids when they're 18 to 21, when they're just starting to get their foot in the door in
[52:50.720 --> 52:56.360]  politics, you're more likely to have an engaged audience or an engaged constituency as we
[52:56.360 --> 53:00.720]  grow up. And I think that that's a fact that's overlooked most often.
[53:00.720 --> 53:09.340]  A lot of these politicians are just so much older than us. The problems that I see are
[53:09.340 --> 53:16.320]  going to be very different because for our 80-year-old and 60-year-old Senate members,
[53:16.320 --> 53:22.640]  climate change means three or four degrees and then they aren't going to be around much
[53:22.640 --> 53:29.900]  longer. But for me, climate change means I might see the world crumble.
[53:29.900 --> 53:34.900]  These politicians are so much older than us. They've been in these offices for so long
[53:34.900 --> 53:40.960]  that they don't need to listen to us. They've kind of got their elections secured almost
[53:40.960 --> 53:45.120]  that they just kind of keep coming back in and they don't have to engage anymore.
[53:45.120 --> 53:51.440]  Well, there's so much more I'd love to ask you, but it's been such a wonderful conversation.
[53:51.440 --> 53:59.520]  I so appreciate every one of you sharing your thoughts. Thank you very, very much.
[53:59.520 --> 54:04.360]  And tomorrow night, Judy will have a report on the Senate race in Wisconsin between incumbent
[54:04.360 --> 54:09.680]  Republican Ron Johnson and Democrat Mandela Barnes, one of the critical contests that
[54:09.680 --> 54:12.920]  will determine control of that legislative body.
[54:12.920 --> 54:18.780]  Also tomorrow, join us right here on PBS for special live coverage of the January 6 committee's
[54:18.780 --> 54:24.200]  public hearing beginning at 1 p.m. Eastern, plus additional analysis on our regularly
[54:24.200 --> 54:25.840]  scheduled program.
[54:25.840 --> 54:29.080]  And that is the NewsHour for tonight. I'm Amna Nawaz.
[54:29.080 --> 54:34.560]  For all of us here at the PBS NewsHour, thank you for joining us. We will see you soon.
[55:29.080 --> 55:35.360]  Thank you.
[55:59.080 --> 56:10.960]  Thank you.
[56:29.080 --> 56:54.560]  You're watching PBS.
[56:54.560 --> 57:00.320]  This is the story of a woman trying to make it in a man's world, and the rest, as they
[57:00.320 --> 57:01.320]  say, is a mystery.
[57:01.320 --> 57:17.680]  I'm a really good detective. You do not want me as an enemy. Let justice be done. No pressure.
[57:17.680 --> 57:27.200]  We'll see how this plays out.
[57:27.200 --> 57:29.320]  Resistance was a necessity.
[57:29.320 --> 57:31.680]  On making black America.
[57:31.680 --> 57:37.120]  Slaves were freed, but African-Americans have not become truly equal citizens.
[57:37.120 --> 57:42.560]  Organizing for change and black life, black joy.
[57:42.560 --> 57:47.640]  Creating these spaces or enclaves that allow us to feel good about ourselves and good in
[57:47.640 --> 57:50.520]  the world, even if the world isn't good.
[57:50.520 --> 57:56.040]  Making black America through the grapevine, Tuesday night at 9.
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[58:49.960 --> 59:08.200]  This is a battlefield.
[59:08.200 --> 59:14.320]  So many senses have come alive. We go with what the environment gives us. We are supposed
[59:14.320 --> 59:27.960]  to protect it. It's a real drum and it's unfolding right in front of you. This will show us so
[59:27.960 --> 59:47.960]  many things that we just haven't seen. Change is coming.
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[01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:21.480]  Hello, everyone, and welcome to Amanpour and Company. Here's what's coming up.
[01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:27.040]  More contentious cases on the United States Supreme Court docket. After gutting women's
[01:00:27.040 --> 01:00:31.880]  rights, democracy and voting rights come up for review, and I speak to the former Attorney
[01:00:31.880 --> 01:00:38.400]  General Eric Holder. Then, a growing power vacuum. How Putin's war in Ukraine is hurting
[01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:47.260]  his influence elsewhere. Plus, Iran intensifies its crackdown, but protesters show no sign
[01:00:47.260 --> 01:00:52.720]  of bowing to that pressure. The country's deep culture of protest with Reza Aslan, who
[01:00:52.720 --> 01:01:22.360]  looks at the historic but little-known role of an American martyr in Persia.