1 00:00:02,702 --> 00:00:07,006 Captioning funded by CBS and FORD-- BUILT FOR THE ROAD AHEAD. 2 00:00:10,243 --> 00:00:13,946 >> Logan: ON THE TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE ATTACKS ON 9/11, WE BRING YOU THE STORY OF 3 00:00:13,948 --> 00:00:15,481 ANNIVERSARY OF THE ATTACKS ON 9/11, WE BRING YOU THE STORY OF THE FBI AGENT WHO HELPED TO 4 00:00:15,483 --> 00:00:17,916 9/11, WE BRING YOU THE STORY OF THE FBI AGENT WHO HELPED TO CRACK THE CASE AGAINST AL QAEDA. 5 00:00:17,918 --> 00:00:19,118 THE FBI AGENT WHO HELPED TO CRACK THE CASE AGAINST AL QAEDA. >> THE MOST IMPORTANT 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,252 CRACK THE CASE AGAINST AL QAEDA. >> THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION IS IDENTIFYING 7 00:00:20,254 --> 00:00:21,987 >> THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION IS IDENTIFYING KHALID SHEIK MOHAMMED AS THE 8 00:00:21,989 --> 00:00:23,389 INFORMATION IS IDENTIFYING KHALID SHEIK MOHAMMED AS THE MASTERMIND OF 9/11. 9 00:00:23,391 --> 00:00:25,124 KHALID SHEIK MOHAMMED AS THE MASTERMIND OF 9/11. >> Logan: ALI SOUFAN HAS NEVER 10 00:00:25,126 --> 00:00:26,525 MASTERMIND OF 9/11. >> Logan: ALI SOUFAN HAS NEVER SHOWN HIS FACE ON TV, BUT 11 00:00:26,527 --> 00:00:28,394 >> Logan: ALI SOUFAN HAS NEVER SHOWN HIS FACE ON TV, BUT TONIGHT, HE TELLS "60 MINUTES" 12 00:00:28,396 --> 00:00:30,662 SHOWN HIS FACE ON TV, BUT TONIGHT, HE TELLS "60 MINUTES" ABOUT INTERROGATING AND 13 00:00:30,664 --> 00:00:32,197 TONIGHT, HE TELLS "60 MINUTES" ABOUT INTERROGATING AND OUTWITTING SOME OF BIN LADEN'S 14 00:00:32,199 --> 00:00:33,599 ABOUT INTERROGATING AND OUTWITTING SOME OF BIN LADEN'S LIEUTENANTS. 15 00:00:33,601 --> 00:00:35,067 OUTWITTING SOME OF BIN LADEN'S LIEUTENANTS. >> AND I SAID, "WELL, I KNOW 16 00:00:35,069 --> 00:00:35,901 LIEUTENANTS. >> AND I SAID, "WELL, I KNOW THAT AL QAEDA DID THAT. 17 00:00:35,903 --> 00:00:36,635 >> AND I SAID, "WELL, I KNOW THAT AL QAEDA DID THAT. SOMEONE TOLD ME." 18 00:00:36,637 --> 00:00:37,603 THAT AL QAEDA DID THAT. SOMEONE TOLD ME." HE SAID, "WHO TOLD YOU?" 19 00:00:37,605 --> 00:00:38,003 SOMEONE TOLD ME." HE SAID, "WHO TOLD YOU?" I SAID, "YOU DID." 20 00:00:38,005 --> 00:00:39,938 HE SAID, "WHO TOLD YOU?" I SAID, "YOU DID." HE TOTALLY COLLAPSED. 21 00:00:39,940 --> 00:00:41,106 I SAID, "YOU DID." HE TOTALLY COLLAPSED. >> Logan: HE COLLAPSED? 22 00:00:41,108 --> 00:00:42,041 HE TOTALLY COLLAPSED. >> Logan: HE COLLAPSED? >> HE PUT HIS HANDS LIKE THIS ON 23 00:00:42,043 --> 00:00:43,642 >> Logan: HE COLLAPSED? >> HE PUT HIS HANDS LIKE THIS ON HIS FACE AND WENT DOWN. 24 00:00:43,644 --> 00:00:45,677 >> HE PUT HIS HANDS LIKE THIS ON HIS FACE AND WENT DOWN. AND HE STARTS SHAKING. 25 00:00:45,679 --> 00:00:46,979 HIS FACE AND WENT DOWN. AND HE STARTS SHAKING. HE KNEW WHAT HE DID. 26 00:00:46,981 --> 00:00:48,847 AND HE STARTS SHAKING. HE KNEW WHAT HE DID. >> Logan: HE KNEW THAT HE... 27 00:00:48,849 --> 00:00:50,616 HE KNEW WHAT HE DID. >> Logan: HE KNEW THAT HE... >> HE JUST GAVE UP BIN LADEN, HE 28 00:00:50,618 --> 00:00:52,985 >> Logan: HE KNEW THAT HE... >> HE JUST GAVE UP BIN LADEN, HE JUST GAVE UP AL QAEDA ON 9/11. 29 00:00:55,321 --> 00:01:01,226 >> HE COMES IN, HIS HANDS ARE CUPPED. AND HE'S GOT BONES IN HIS HANDS. 30 00:01:01,228 --> 00:01:02,394 CUPPED. AND HE'S GOT BONES IN HIS HANDS. AND HE GOES UP TO THE MEDICAL 31 00:01:02,396 --> 00:01:03,562 AND HE'S GOT BONES IN HIS HANDS. AND HE GOES UP TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER AND HE PUTS THE BONES 32 00:01:03,564 --> 00:01:04,229 AND HE GOES UP TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER AND HE PUTS THE BONES IN FRONT OF HIM AND HE GOES, 33 00:01:04,231 --> 00:01:04,630 EXAMINER AND HE PUTS THE BONES IN FRONT OF HIM AND HE GOES, "THIS IS MY SON." 34 00:01:04,632 --> 00:01:07,166 IN FRONT OF HIM AND HE GOES, "THIS IS MY SON." >> Pelley: IT WAS AFTER HEARING 35 00:01:07,168 --> 00:01:10,969 "THIS IS MY SON." >> Pelley: IT WAS AFTER HEARING STORY AFTER STORY LIKE THIS THAT 36 00:01:10,971 --> 00:01:13,238 >> Pelley: IT WAS AFTER HEARING STORY AFTER STORY LIKE THIS THAT DR. BENJAMIN LUFT DECIDED TO 37 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,475 STORY AFTER STORY LIKE THIS THAT DR. BENJAMIN LUFT DECIDED TO COMPILE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER 38 00:01:16,477 --> 00:01:17,376 DR. BENJAMIN LUFT DECIDED TO COMPILE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ORAL HISTORY PROJECT-- UNEDITED, 39 00:01:17,378 --> 00:01:18,977 COMPILE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ORAL HISTORY PROJECT-- UNEDITED, UNVARNISHED REALITY AS 40 00:01:18,979 --> 00:01:21,847 ORAL HISTORY PROJECT-- UNEDITED, UNVARNISHED REALITY AS EXPERIENCED BY THE RESPONDERS TO 41 00:01:21,849 --> 00:01:23,215 UNVARNISHED REALITY AS EXPERIENCED BY THE RESPONDERS TO GROUND ZERO. 42 00:01:23,217 --> 00:01:24,850 EXPERIENCED BY THE RESPONDERS TO GROUND ZERO. >> IT WAS CRAZY. 43 00:01:24,852 --> 00:01:26,418 GROUND ZERO. >> IT WAS CRAZY. >> IT WAS ALMOST LIKE TAKING A 44 00:01:26,420 --> 00:01:30,923 >> IT WAS CRAZY. >> IT WAS ALMOST LIKE TAKING A CIVICS CLASS AS TO WHAT IS 45 00:01:30,925 --> 00:01:31,790 >> IT WAS ALMOST LIKE TAKING A CIVICS CLASS AS TO WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A CITIZEN. 46 00:01:31,792 --> 00:01:34,460 CIVICS CLASS AS TO WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A CITIZEN. WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A 47 00:01:34,462 --> 00:01:35,427 IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A CITIZEN. WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A HUMAN BEING. 48 00:01:35,429 --> 00:01:37,229 WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A HUMAN BEING. WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO BEING AN 49 00:01:37,231 --> 00:01:38,363 HUMAN BEING. WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO BEING AN AMERICAN. 50 00:01:39,499 --> 00:01:42,835 >> I'M STEVE KROFT. >> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BOB SIMON. 51 00:01:42,837 --> 00:01:43,902 >> I'M LESLEY STAHL. >> I'M BOB SIMON. >> I'M MORLEY SAFER. 52 00:01:43,904 --> 00:01:45,637 >> I'M BOB SIMON. >> I'M MORLEY SAFER. >> I'M LARA LOGAN. 53 00:01:45,639 --> 00:01:47,005 >> I'M MORLEY SAFER. >> I'M LARA LOGAN. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. 54 00:01:47,007 --> 00:01:48,841 >> I'M LARA LOGAN. >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. THOSE STORIES TONIGHT ON THIS 55 00:01:48,843 --> 00:01:49,942 >> I'M SCOTT PELLEY. THOSE STORIES TONIGHT ON THIS SPECIAL 9/11 EDITION OF "60 56 00:01:49,944 --> 00:01:53,278 THOSE STORIES TONIGHT ON THIS SPECIAL 9/11 EDITION OF "60 MINUTES." 57 00:01:58,685 --> 00:02:03,789 >> Logan: TONIGHT, ON THE TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF 9/11, WE BRING YOU THE STORY OF SOMEONE WHO HAS 58 00:02:03,791 --> 00:02:04,289 ANNIVERSARY OF 9/11, WE BRING YOU THE STORY OF SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER SHOWN HIS FACE ON 59 00:02:04,291 --> 00:02:05,858 YOU THE STORY OF SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER SHOWN HIS FACE ON TELEVISION BEFORE, AND FOR GOOD 60 00:02:05,860 --> 00:02:08,327 NEVER SHOWN HIS FACE ON TELEVISION BEFORE, AND FOR GOOD REASON. 61 00:02:08,329 --> 00:02:09,795 TELEVISION BEFORE, AND FOR GOOD REASON. ALI SOUFAN WAS ONE OF THE FBI'S 62 00:02:09,797 --> 00:02:10,362 REASON. ALI SOUFAN WAS ONE OF THE FBI'S SECRET WEAPONS IN ITS FIGHT 63 00:02:10,364 --> 00:02:12,764 ALI SOUFAN WAS ONE OF THE FBI'S SECRET WEAPONS IN ITS FIGHT AGAINST AL QAEDA. 64 00:02:12,766 --> 00:02:15,534 SECRET WEAPONS IN ITS FIGHT AGAINST AL QAEDA. A LEBANESE-AMERICAN, FLUENT IN 65 00:02:15,536 --> 00:02:17,269 AGAINST AL QAEDA. A LEBANESE-AMERICAN, FLUENT IN ARABIC, HE INTERROGATED AL QAEDA 66 00:02:17,271 --> 00:02:18,670 A LEBANESE-AMERICAN, FLUENT IN ARABIC, HE INTERROGATED AL QAEDA PRISONERS AT SECRET LOCATIONS 67 00:02:18,672 --> 00:02:20,973 ARABIC, HE INTERROGATED AL QAEDA PRISONERS AT SECRET LOCATIONS ALL OVER THE WORLD. 68 00:02:20,975 --> 00:02:22,107 PRISONERS AT SECRET LOCATIONS ALL OVER THE WORLD. SOUFAN WAS KNOWN FOR HIS ABILITY 69 00:02:22,109 --> 00:02:23,909 ALL OVER THE WORLD. SOUFAN WAS KNOWN FOR HIS ABILITY TO OUTWIT TERRORISTS. 70 00:02:23,911 --> 00:02:27,346 SOUFAN WAS KNOWN FOR HIS ABILITY TO OUTWIT TERRORISTS. AND HE'S TELLING HIS STORY IN A 71 00:02:27,348 --> 00:02:28,280 TO OUTWIT TERRORISTS. AND HE'S TELLING HIS STORY IN A NEW BOOK, "THE BLACK BANNERS," 72 00:02:28,282 --> 00:02:29,448 AND HE'S TELLING HIS STORY IN A NEW BOOK, "THE BLACK BANNERS," PARTS OF WHICH HAVE BEEN BLACKED 73 00:02:29,450 --> 00:02:30,616 NEW BOOK, "THE BLACK BANNERS," PARTS OF WHICH HAVE BEEN BLACKED OUT BECAUSE THE CIA SAYS THEY 74 00:02:30,618 --> 00:02:34,086 PARTS OF WHICH HAVE BEEN BLACKED OUT BECAUSE THE CIA SAYS THEY CONTAIN CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. 75 00:02:34,088 --> 00:02:36,188 OUT BECAUSE THE CIA SAYS THEY CONTAIN CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. ON THE DAY OF THE SEPTEMBER 11 76 00:02:36,190 --> 00:02:37,422 CONTAIN CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. ON THE DAY OF THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS, ALI SOUFAN WAS 77 00:02:37,424 --> 00:02:39,191 ON THE DAY OF THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS, ALI SOUFAN WAS THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY FROM 78 00:02:39,193 --> 00:02:41,793 ATTACKS, ALI SOUFAN WAS THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY FROM GROUND ZERO, BUT IN A UNIQUE 79 00:02:41,795 --> 00:02:42,394 THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY FROM GROUND ZERO, BUT IN A UNIQUE POSITION TO HELP FIND THOSE 80 00:02:42,396 --> 00:02:46,265 GROUND ZERO, BUT IN A UNIQUE POSITION TO HELP FIND THOSE RESPONSIBLE. 81 00:02:46,267 --> 00:02:47,566 POSITION TO HELP FIND THOSE RESPONSIBLE. WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST THOUGHT? 82 00:02:47,568 --> 00:02:49,268 RESPONSIBLE. WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST THOUGHT? >> Ali Soufan: IT WAS AL QAEDA. 83 00:02:49,270 --> 00:02:49,902 WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST THOUGHT? >> Ali Soufan: IT WAS AL QAEDA. ABSOLUTELY, I HAD NO DOUBT IN MY 84 00:02:49,904 --> 00:02:50,936 >> Ali Soufan: IT WAS AL QAEDA. ABSOLUTELY, I HAD NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. 85 00:02:50,938 --> 00:02:52,371 ABSOLUTELY, I HAD NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. I HAD NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. 86 00:02:52,373 --> 00:02:53,405 MIND. I HAD NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. TWO PLANES AT THE SAME TIME, 87 00:02:53,407 --> 00:02:54,039 I HAD NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. TWO PLANES AT THE SAME TIME, HITTING THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. 88 00:02:54,041 --> 00:02:56,608 TWO PLANES AT THE SAME TIME, HITTING THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. >> Logan: ON 9/11, FBI AGENT ALI 89 00:02:56,610 --> 00:02:59,444 HITTING THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. >> Logan: ON 9/11, FBI AGENT ALI SOUFAN WAS IN YEMEN, WHERE HIS 90 00:02:59,446 --> 00:03:01,079 >> Logan: ON 9/11, FBI AGENT ALI SOUFAN WAS IN YEMEN, WHERE HIS NEW YORK-BASED TEAM HAD BEEN 91 00:03:01,081 --> 00:03:02,548 SOUFAN WAS IN YEMEN, WHERE HIS NEW YORK-BASED TEAM HAD BEEN INVESTIGATING THE DEADLY AL 92 00:03:02,550 --> 00:03:04,883 NEW YORK-BASED TEAM HAD BEEN INVESTIGATING THE DEADLY AL QAEDA ATTACK A YEAR EARLIER ON 93 00:03:04,885 --> 00:03:06,985 INVESTIGATING THE DEADLY AL QAEDA ATTACK A YEAR EARLIER ON THE U.S.S. "COLE." 94 00:03:06,987 --> 00:03:08,287 QAEDA ATTACK A YEAR EARLIER ON THE U.S.S. "COLE." SOUFAN AND HIS TEAM WERE 95 00:03:08,289 --> 00:03:09,588 THE U.S.S. "COLE." SOUFAN AND HIS TEAM WERE PREPARING TO FLY BACK TO NEW 96 00:03:09,590 --> 00:03:11,423 SOUFAN AND HIS TEAM WERE PREPARING TO FLY BACK TO NEW YORK WHEN FBI HEADQUARTERS 97 00:03:11,425 --> 00:03:12,191 PREPARING TO FLY BACK TO NEW YORK WHEN FBI HEADQUARTERS ORDERED HIM AND HIS PARTNER TO 98 00:03:12,193 --> 00:03:14,693 YORK WHEN FBI HEADQUARTERS ORDERED HIM AND HIS PARTNER TO STAY PUT. 99 00:03:14,695 --> 00:03:15,360 ORDERED HIM AND HIS PARTNER TO STAY PUT. AND AT THIS POINT, EVERY FIBER 100 00:03:15,362 --> 00:03:17,129 STAY PUT. AND AT THIS POINT, EVERY FIBER OF YOUR BEING IS SCREAMING, 101 00:03:17,131 --> 00:03:17,729 AND AT THIS POINT, EVERY FIBER OF YOUR BEING IS SCREAMING, "I'VE GOT TO GET BACK TO NEW 102 00:03:17,731 --> 00:03:19,198 OF YOUR BEING IS SCREAMING, "I'VE GOT TO GET BACK TO NEW YORK"? 103 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:19,831 "I'VE GOT TO GET BACK TO NEW YORK"? >> Soufan: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I 104 00:03:19,833 --> 00:03:20,299 YORK"? >> Soufan: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. 105 00:03:20,301 --> 00:03:21,667 >> Soufan: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. I SAID, YOU KNOW, "NEW YORK IS 106 00:03:21,669 --> 00:03:23,135 SAID. I SAID, YOU KNOW, "NEW YORK IS UNDER ATTACK, AMERICA UNDER 107 00:03:23,137 --> 00:03:23,936 I SAID, YOU KNOW, "NEW YORK IS UNDER ATTACK, AMERICA UNDER ATTACK. 108 00:03:23,938 --> 00:03:24,903 UNDER ATTACK, AMERICA UNDER ATTACK. WE CAN INVESTIGATE THE "COLE" 109 00:03:24,905 --> 00:03:27,806 ATTACK. WE CAN INVESTIGATE THE "COLE" SOME OTHER TIME." 110 00:03:27,808 --> 00:03:31,743 WE CAN INVESTIGATE THE "COLE" SOME OTHER TIME." AND THE ANSWER WAS, "NO, ALI, 111 00:03:31,745 --> 00:03:32,277 SOME OTHER TIME." AND THE ANSWER WAS, "NO, ALI, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE "COLE." 112 00:03:32,279 --> 00:03:32,911 AND THE ANSWER WAS, "NO, ALI, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE "COLE." IT'S... IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT WHAT 113 00:03:32,913 --> 00:03:37,549 IT'S NOT ABOUT THE "COLE." IT'S... IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED HERE." 114 00:03:37,551 --> 00:03:38,150 IT'S... IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED HERE." AND I WAS FEELING LIKE A KNIFE 115 00:03:38,152 --> 00:03:40,018 HAPPENED HERE." AND I WAS FEELING LIKE A KNIFE GONE IN MY HEART. 116 00:03:40,020 --> 00:03:42,487 AND I WAS FEELING LIKE A KNIFE GONE IN MY HEART. I... I FELT, "WHAT DID WE MISS? 117 00:03:42,489 --> 00:03:45,324 GONE IN MY HEART. I... I FELT, "WHAT DID WE MISS? WHAT DID WE MISS?" 118 00:03:45,326 --> 00:03:47,659 I... I FELT, "WHAT DID WE MISS? WHAT DID WE MISS?" >> Logan: SOUFAN WONDERED 119 00:03:47,661 --> 00:03:49,094 WHAT DID WE MISS?" >> Logan: SOUFAN WONDERED WHETHER HE AND HIS TEAM HAD 120 00:03:49,096 --> 00:03:50,462 >> Logan: SOUFAN WONDERED WHETHER HE AND HIS TEAM HAD MISSED SOME HINT OF THE 9/11 121 00:03:50,464 --> 00:03:51,930 WHETHER HE AND HIS TEAM HAD MISSED SOME HINT OF THE 9/11 PLOT AS THEY INVESTIGATED THE 122 00:03:51,932 --> 00:03:53,799 MISSED SOME HINT OF THE 9/11 PLOT AS THEY INVESTIGATED THE EARLIER ATTACK ON THE "COLE," 123 00:03:53,801 --> 00:03:55,601 PLOT AS THEY INVESTIGATED THE EARLIER ATTACK ON THE "COLE," AND HIS MISSION IN YEMEN NOW 124 00:03:55,603 --> 00:03:57,836 EARLIER ATTACK ON THE "COLE," AND HIS MISSION IN YEMEN NOW TOOK ON A NEW URGENCY. 125 00:03:57,838 --> 00:03:59,271 AND HIS MISSION IN YEMEN NOW TOOK ON A NEW URGENCY. THERE WERE ALREADY A NUMBER OF 126 00:03:59,273 --> 00:04:01,740 TOOK ON A NEW URGENCY. THERE WERE ALREADY A NUMBER OF AL QAEDA OPERATIVES IN CUSTODY 127 00:04:01,742 --> 00:04:03,609 THERE WERE ALREADY A NUMBER OF AL QAEDA OPERATIVES IN CUSTODY IN YEMEN, AND FOR THE FBI, ALI 128 00:04:03,611 --> 00:04:05,510 AL QAEDA OPERATIVES IN CUSTODY IN YEMEN, AND FOR THE FBI, ALI SOUFAN WAS THE RIGHT MAN TO 129 00:04:05,512 --> 00:04:07,713 IN YEMEN, AND FOR THE FBI, ALI SOUFAN WAS THE RIGHT MAN TO QUESTION THEM ABOUT 9/11. 130 00:04:07,715 --> 00:04:09,615 SOUFAN WAS THE RIGHT MAN TO QUESTION THEM ABOUT 9/11. HE HAD BEEN INVESTIGATING AL 131 00:04:09,617 --> 00:04:10,582 QUESTION THEM ABOUT 9/11. HE HAD BEEN INVESTIGATING AL QAEDA FOR FOUR YEARS, AND KNEW A 132 00:04:10,584 --> 00:04:12,517 HE HAD BEEN INVESTIGATING AL QAEDA FOR FOUR YEARS, AND KNEW A LOT ABOUT ITS OPERATIVES AND ITS 133 00:04:12,519 --> 00:04:14,119 QAEDA FOR FOUR YEARS, AND KNEW A LOT ABOUT ITS OPERATIVES AND ITS IDEOLOGY. 134 00:04:14,121 --> 00:04:16,088 LOT ABOUT ITS OPERATIVES AND ITS IDEOLOGY. HE WAS FLUENT IN ARABIC, A 135 00:04:16,090 --> 00:04:17,889 IDEOLOGY. HE WAS FLUENT IN ARABIC, A MUSLIM HIMSELF, AND AT 30 YEARS 136 00:04:17,891 --> 00:04:21,026 HE WAS FLUENT IN ARABIC, A MUSLIM HIMSELF, AND AT 30 YEARS OLD, STARTING TO MAKE A NAME FOR 137 00:04:21,028 --> 00:04:21,727 MUSLIM HIMSELF, AND AT 30 YEARS OLD, STARTING TO MAKE A NAME FOR HIMSELF AS ONE OF THE BUREAU'S 138 00:04:21,729 --> 00:04:22,828 OLD, STARTING TO MAKE A NAME FOR HIMSELF AS ONE OF THE BUREAU'S BEST INTERROGATORS OF ISLAMIC 139 00:04:22,830 --> 00:04:25,897 HIMSELF AS ONE OF THE BUREAU'S BEST INTERROGATORS OF ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS. 140 00:04:25,899 --> 00:04:27,666 BEST INTERROGATORS OF ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS. WHAT MAKES A GOOD INTERVIEWER OR 141 00:04:27,668 --> 00:04:29,401 EXTREMISTS. WHAT MAKES A GOOD INTERVIEWER OR INTERROGATOR? 142 00:04:29,403 --> 00:04:29,935 WHAT MAKES A GOOD INTERVIEWER OR INTERROGATOR? >> Soufan: KNOWLEDGE AND 143 00:04:29,937 --> 00:04:31,703 INTERROGATOR? >> Soufan: KNOWLEDGE AND EMPATHY. 144 00:04:31,705 --> 00:04:32,237 >> Soufan: KNOWLEDGE AND EMPATHY. I THINK THESE ARE THE TWO 145 00:04:32,239 --> 00:04:33,238 EMPATHY. I THINK THESE ARE THE TWO THINGS. 146 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:34,473 I THINK THESE ARE THE TWO THINGS. YOU NEED TO CONNECT WITH PEOPLE 147 00:04:34,475 --> 00:04:36,775 THINGS. YOU NEED TO CONNECT WITH PEOPLE ON A HUMAN LEVEL, REGARDLESS IF 148 00:04:36,777 --> 00:04:40,245 YOU NEED TO CONNECT WITH PEOPLE ON A HUMAN LEVEL, REGARDLESS IF THEY DON'T LIKE YOU, IF THEY 149 00:04:40,247 --> 00:04:40,846 ON A HUMAN LEVEL, REGARDLESS IF THEY DON'T LIKE YOU, IF THEY WANT TO KILL YOU. 150 00:04:40,848 --> 00:04:42,080 THEY DON'T LIKE YOU, IF THEY WANT TO KILL YOU. >> Logan: IS IT HARD TO HAVE 151 00:04:42,082 --> 00:04:43,315 WANT TO KILL YOU. >> Logan: IS IT HARD TO HAVE EMPATHY WITH SOMEONE WHO'S JUST 152 00:04:43,317 --> 00:04:46,151 >> Logan: IS IT HARD TO HAVE EMPATHY WITH SOMEONE WHO'S JUST KILLED, OR HELPED TO KILL, 153 00:04:46,153 --> 00:04:48,387 EMPATHY WITH SOMEONE WHO'S JUST KILLED, OR HELPED TO KILL, THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS? 154 00:04:48,389 --> 00:04:49,721 KILLED, OR HELPED TO KILL, THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS? >> Soufan: OH, ABSOLUTELY. 155 00:04:49,723 --> 00:04:52,257 THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS? >> Soufan: OH, ABSOLUTELY. I WAS WITH ONE GUY WHO'S TELLING 156 00:04:52,259 --> 00:04:52,891 >> Soufan: OH, ABSOLUTELY. I WAS WITH ONE GUY WHO'S TELLING ME HE WANT TO SLAUGHTER ME LIKE 157 00:04:52,893 --> 00:04:53,325 I WAS WITH ONE GUY WHO'S TELLING ME HE WANT TO SLAUGHTER ME LIKE A SHEEP. 158 00:04:53,327 --> 00:04:53,925 ME HE WANT TO SLAUGHTER ME LIKE A SHEEP. >> Logan: WHAT DID YOU SAY TO 159 00:04:53,927 --> 00:04:54,293 A SHEEP. >> Logan: WHAT DID YOU SAY TO HIM? 160 00:04:54,295 --> 00:04:55,560 >> Logan: WHAT DID YOU SAY TO HIM? >> Soufan: I KIND OF, LIKE, 161 00:04:55,562 --> 00:04:57,729 HIM? >> Soufan: I KIND OF, LIKE, POLITELY PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE. 162 00:04:57,731 --> 00:04:58,930 >> Soufan: I KIND OF, LIKE, POLITELY PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE. >> Logan: I WOULD LIKE TO 163 00:04:58,932 --> 00:04:59,998 POLITELY PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE. >> Logan: I WOULD LIKE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT "POLITELY PUT 164 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,967 >> Logan: I WOULD LIKE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT "POLITELY PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE" MEANS. 165 00:05:01,969 --> 00:05:03,168 UNDERSTAND WHAT "POLITELY PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE" MEANS. >> Soufan: WE HAD A FRUIT NEXT 166 00:05:03,170 --> 00:05:03,802 HIM IN HIS PLACE" MEANS. >> Soufan: WE HAD A FRUIT NEXT TO US AND THERE'S A KNIFE TO CUT 167 00:05:03,804 --> 00:05:04,836 >> Soufan: WE HAD A FRUIT NEXT TO US AND THERE'S A KNIFE TO CUT THE FRUIT. 168 00:05:04,838 --> 00:05:05,671 TO US AND THERE'S A KNIFE TO CUT THE FRUIT. I GAVE HIM THE KNIFE. 169 00:05:05,673 --> 00:05:07,406 THE FRUIT. I GAVE HIM THE KNIFE. I SAID, "GO AHEAD AND DO IT 170 00:05:07,408 --> 00:05:08,273 I GAVE HIM THE KNIFE. I SAID, "GO AHEAD AND DO IT NOW." 171 00:05:08,275 --> 00:05:09,541 I SAID, "GO AHEAD AND DO IT NOW." HE LOOKED AT ME. 172 00:05:09,543 --> 00:05:11,310 NOW." HE LOOKED AT ME. I SAID, "I THOUGHT SO. 173 00:05:11,312 --> 00:05:11,977 HE LOOKED AT ME. I SAID, "I THOUGHT SO. SO SIT DOWN AND SHUT YOUR MOUTH 174 00:05:11,979 --> 00:05:12,978 I SAID, "I THOUGHT SO. SO SIT DOWN AND SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND LET'S TALK." 175 00:05:12,980 --> 00:05:13,612 SO SIT DOWN AND SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND LET'S TALK." >> Logan: ARE THEY TRYING TO 176 00:05:13,614 --> 00:05:15,213 AND LET'S TALK." >> Logan: ARE THEY TRYING TO TURN THE SITUATION AROUND? 177 00:05:15,215 --> 00:05:15,947 >> Logan: ARE THEY TRYING TO TURN THE SITUATION AROUND? ARE THEY TRYING TO TURN IT ON 178 00:05:15,949 --> 00:05:16,481 TURN THE SITUATION AROUND? ARE THEY TRYING TO TURN IT ON YOU? 179 00:05:16,483 --> 00:05:17,182 ARE THEY TRYING TO TURN IT ON YOU? >> Soufan: WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? 180 00:05:17,184 --> 00:05:18,583 YOU? >> Soufan: WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? THERE IS SOMETHING THAT THEY 181 00:05:18,585 --> 00:05:19,384 >> Soufan: WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? THERE IS SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T EXPECT WHEN THEY ARE... 182 00:05:19,386 --> 00:05:19,985 THERE IS SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T EXPECT WHEN THEY ARE... THEY ARE BEING INTERROGATED BY 183 00:05:19,987 --> 00:05:22,721 DON'T EXPECT WHEN THEY ARE... THEY ARE BEING INTERROGATED BY AMERICANS. 184 00:05:22,723 --> 00:05:23,655 THEY ARE BEING INTERROGATED BY AMERICANS. THEY DON'T EXPECT A PERSON COMES 185 00:05:23,657 --> 00:05:25,023 AMERICANS. THEY DON'T EXPECT A PERSON COMES WITH THEM. 186 00:05:25,025 --> 00:05:26,124 THEY DON'T EXPECT A PERSON COMES WITH THEM. THEY HAVE, LIKE, TEA, THEY HAVE 187 00:05:26,126 --> 00:05:27,726 WITH THEM. THEY HAVE, LIKE, TEA, THEY HAVE COFFEE-- SIT DOWN, TALK, TRYING 188 00:05:27,728 --> 00:05:29,027 THEY HAVE, LIKE, TEA, THEY HAVE COFFEE-- SIT DOWN, TALK, TRYING TO KNOW EACH OTHER, TRYING TO 189 00:05:29,029 --> 00:05:30,128 COFFEE-- SIT DOWN, TALK, TRYING TO KNOW EACH OTHER, TRYING TO BUILD A RAPPORT. 190 00:05:30,130 --> 00:05:30,796 TO KNOW EACH OTHER, TRYING TO BUILD A RAPPORT. AND THAT SCARES THEM, THAT 191 00:05:30,798 --> 00:05:33,432 BUILD A RAPPORT. AND THAT SCARES THEM, THAT SHAKES THEM. 192 00:05:33,434 --> 00:05:34,700 AND THAT SCARES THEM, THAT SHAKES THEM. BECAUSE THEY WERE TRAINED THAT 193 00:05:34,702 --> 00:05:36,268 SHAKES THEM. BECAUSE THEY WERE TRAINED THAT WE ARE SO EVIL, AND WE TORTURE 194 00:05:36,270 --> 00:05:39,604 BECAUSE THEY WERE TRAINED THAT WE ARE SO EVIL, AND WE TORTURE AND WE KILL. 195 00:05:39,606 --> 00:05:40,205 WE ARE SO EVIL, AND WE TORTURE AND WE KILL. AND THAT IS THE REASON OF THE 196 00:05:40,207 --> 00:05:42,574 AND WE KILL. AND THAT IS THE REASON OF THE RAGE AGAINST US. 197 00:05:42,576 --> 00:05:44,242 AND THAT IS THE REASON OF THE RAGE AGAINST US. SO THEY TELL YOU A LOT OF STUFF 198 00:05:44,244 --> 00:05:45,077 RAGE AGAINST US. SO THEY TELL YOU A LOT OF STUFF TO PISS YOU OFF, AND THEN THEY 199 00:05:45,079 --> 00:05:46,244 SO THEY TELL YOU A LOT OF STUFF TO PISS YOU OFF, AND THEN THEY CAN SAY, "SEE? 200 00:05:46,246 --> 00:05:47,346 TO PISS YOU OFF, AND THEN THEY CAN SAY, "SEE? HE IS EVIL." 201 00:05:47,348 --> 00:05:50,115 CAN SAY, "SEE? HE IS EVIL." SO IN MY CASE, I TRY TO DEPRIVE 202 00:05:50,117 --> 00:05:52,017 HE IS EVIL." SO IN MY CASE, I TRY TO DEPRIVE THEM FROM THAT. 203 00:05:52,019 --> 00:05:53,018 SO IN MY CASE, I TRY TO DEPRIVE THEM FROM THAT. >> Logan: DO YOU THINK THE FACT 204 00:05:53,020 --> 00:05:54,586 THEM FROM THAT. >> Logan: DO YOU THINK THE FACT THAT YOU WERE A MUSLIM GAVE YOU 205 00:05:54,588 --> 00:05:57,155 >> Logan: DO YOU THINK THE FACT THAT YOU WERE A MUSLIM GAVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE IN SOME CASES AND 206 00:05:57,157 --> 00:05:58,490 THAT YOU WERE A MUSLIM GAVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE IN SOME CASES AND IN SOME WAYS? 207 00:05:58,492 --> 00:05:59,658 AN ADVANTAGE IN SOME CASES AND IN SOME WAYS? >> Soufan: NO. 208 00:05:59,660 --> 00:06:02,527 IN SOME WAYS? >> Soufan: NO. BUT THE FACT THAT MAYBE I 209 00:06:02,529 --> 00:06:03,929 >> Soufan: NO. BUT THE FACT THAT MAYBE I UNDERSTOOD THE CULTURE, THE FACT 210 00:06:03,931 --> 00:06:05,530 BUT THE FACT THAT MAYBE I UNDERSTOOD THE CULTURE, THE FACT THAT I GENUINELY, AS A PERSON, 211 00:06:05,532 --> 00:06:06,998 UNDERSTOOD THE CULTURE, THE FACT THAT I GENUINELY, AS A PERSON, HAVE AN INTEREST IN THESE KIND 212 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:07,632 THAT I GENUINELY, AS A PERSON, HAVE AN INTEREST IN THESE KIND OF THINGS, THAT PROBABLY HELPED 213 00:06:07,634 --> 00:06:10,068 HAVE AN INTEREST IN THESE KIND OF THINGS, THAT PROBABLY HELPED ME. 214 00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:11,069 OF THINGS, THAT PROBABLY HELPED ME. >> Logan: THERE HAS BEEN TIMES 215 00:06:11,071 --> 00:06:12,070 ME. >> Logan: THERE HAS BEEN TIMES WHERE YOU'VE GOT INTO REALLY 216 00:06:12,072 --> 00:06:12,471 >> Logan: THERE HAS BEEN TIMES WHERE YOU'VE GOT INTO REALLY DEEP, RELIGIOUS... 217 00:06:12,473 --> 00:06:13,238 WHERE YOU'VE GOT INTO REALLY DEEP, RELIGIOUS... >> Soufan: RIGHT. 218 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:14,106 DEEP, RELIGIOUS... >> Soufan: RIGHT. >> Logan: ...ARGUMENTS WITH SOME 219 00:06:14,108 --> 00:06:15,507 >> Soufan: RIGHT. >> Logan: ...ARGUMENTS WITH SOME PRETTY HIGH-LEVEL BAD GUYS. 220 00:06:15,509 --> 00:06:16,575 >> Logan: ...ARGUMENTS WITH SOME PRETTY HIGH-LEVEL BAD GUYS. >> Soufan: WELL, IT HAPPENED 221 00:06:16,577 --> 00:06:17,576 PRETTY HIGH-LEVEL BAD GUYS. >> Soufan: WELL, IT HAPPENED FREQUENTLY, YEAH. 222 00:06:17,578 --> 00:06:18,143 >> Soufan: WELL, IT HAPPENED FREQUENTLY, YEAH. >> Logan: DID YOU WIN THOSE 223 00:06:18,145 --> 00:06:19,444 FREQUENTLY, YEAH. >> Logan: DID YOU WIN THOSE ARGUMENTS? 224 00:06:19,446 --> 00:06:20,112 >> Logan: DID YOU WIN THOSE ARGUMENTS? >> Soufan: WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF 225 00:06:20,114 --> 00:06:23,415 ARGUMENTS? >> Soufan: WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I CONVINCED THEM. 226 00:06:23,417 --> 00:06:24,116 >> Soufan: WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I CONVINCED THEM. BUT I KNOW, TOWARDS THE END, I 227 00:06:24,118 --> 00:06:25,317 I CONVINCED THEM. BUT I KNOW, TOWARDS THE END, I HAVE MY CONFESSION AND THAT 228 00:06:25,319 --> 00:06:30,122 BUT I KNOW, TOWARDS THE END, I HAVE MY CONFESSION AND THAT WHAT'S I CARE ABOUT. 229 00:06:30,124 --> 00:06:30,622 HAVE MY CONFESSION AND THAT WHAT'S I CARE ABOUT. ( LAUGHTER ) 230 00:06:30,624 --> 00:06:31,223 WHAT'S I CARE ABOUT. ( LAUGHTER ) >> Logan: JUST ONE WEEK AFTER 231 00:06:31,225 --> 00:06:31,990 ( LAUGHTER ) >> Logan: JUST ONE WEEK AFTER 9/11, SOUFAN AND HIS PARTNER 232 00:06:31,992 --> 00:06:33,091 >> Logan: JUST ONE WEEK AFTER 9/11, SOUFAN AND HIS PARTNER FOUND THEMSELVES FACE TO FACE 233 00:06:33,093 --> 00:06:34,559 9/11, SOUFAN AND HIS PARTNER FOUND THEMSELVES FACE TO FACE WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN'S 234 00:06:34,561 --> 00:06:36,795 FOUND THEMSELVES FACE TO FACE WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN'S BODYGUARD, ABU JANDAL. 235 00:06:36,797 --> 00:06:37,829 WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN'S BODYGUARD, ABU JANDAL. HE'D BEEN CAUGHT AND IMPRISONED 236 00:06:37,831 --> 00:06:39,131 BODYGUARD, ABU JANDAL. HE'D BEEN CAUGHT AND IMPRISONED IN YEMEN NEARLY SEVEN MONTHS 237 00:06:39,133 --> 00:06:41,299 HE'D BEEN CAUGHT AND IMPRISONED IN YEMEN NEARLY SEVEN MONTHS BEFORE 9/11, BUT NOW THAT BIN 238 00:06:41,301 --> 00:06:44,536 IN YEMEN NEARLY SEVEN MONTHS BEFORE 9/11, BUT NOW THAT BIN LADEN HAD ATTACKED ON U.S. SOIL, 239 00:06:44,538 --> 00:06:45,137 BEFORE 9/11, BUT NOW THAT BIN LADEN HAD ATTACKED ON U.S. SOIL, IT WAS IMPORTANT TO SEE IF ABU 240 00:06:45,139 --> 00:06:47,105 LADEN HAD ATTACKED ON U.S. SOIL, IT WAS IMPORTANT TO SEE IF ABU JANDAL COULD HELP THE FBI BUILD 241 00:06:47,107 --> 00:06:48,974 IT WAS IMPORTANT TO SEE IF ABU JANDAL COULD HELP THE FBI BUILD A CASE AGAINST THOSE 242 00:06:48,976 --> 00:06:51,576 JANDAL COULD HELP THE FBI BUILD A CASE AGAINST THOSE RESPONSIBLE. 243 00:06:51,578 --> 00:06:53,011 A CASE AGAINST THOSE RESPONSIBLE. >> Soufan: HE WALKED, SAT IN HIS 244 00:06:53,013 --> 00:06:53,612 RESPONSIBLE. >> Soufan: HE WALKED, SAT IN HIS CHAIR, AND LITERALLY MOVED THE 245 00:06:53,614 --> 00:06:58,717 >> Soufan: HE WALKED, SAT IN HIS CHAIR, AND LITERALLY MOVED THE CHAIR TOWARDS THE TWO YEMENI 246 00:06:58,719 --> 00:07:01,620 CHAIR, AND LITERALLY MOVED THE CHAIR TOWARDS THE TWO YEMENI INTERROGATORS THAT'S THERE. 247 00:07:01,622 --> 00:07:02,320 CHAIR TOWARDS THE TWO YEMENI INTERROGATORS THAT'S THERE. AND HE SAID, "I DON'T 248 00:07:02,322 --> 00:07:03,288 INTERROGATORS THAT'S THERE. AND HE SAID, "I DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THEM. 249 00:07:03,290 --> 00:07:03,822 AND HE SAID, "I DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THEM. I DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR 250 00:07:03,824 --> 00:07:04,956 ACKNOWLEDGE THEM. I DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR EXISTENCE." 251 00:07:04,958 --> 00:07:05,557 I DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR EXISTENCE." >> Logan: AND WHY IS HE DOING 252 00:07:05,559 --> 00:07:06,792 EXISTENCE." >> Logan: AND WHY IS HE DOING THAT? 253 00:07:06,794 --> 00:07:07,426 >> Logan: AND WHY IS HE DOING THAT? >> Soufan: HE HATE US. 254 00:07:07,428 --> 00:07:09,728 THAT? >> Soufan: HE HATE US. HE HATE AMERICANS. 255 00:07:09,730 --> 00:07:10,462 >> Soufan: HE HATE US. HE HATE AMERICANS. >> Logan: SO HOW DID YOU GET HIM 256 00:07:10,464 --> 00:07:11,096 HE HATE AMERICANS. >> Logan: SO HOW DID YOU GET HIM TO OPEN UP? 257 00:07:11,098 --> 00:07:11,630 >> Logan: SO HOW DID YOU GET HIM TO OPEN UP? >> Soufan: WELL, IT WAS A 258 00:07:11,632 --> 00:07:12,531 TO OPEN UP? >> Soufan: WELL, IT WAS A PROCESS. 259 00:07:12,533 --> 00:07:13,465 >> Soufan: WELL, IT WAS A PROCESS. WE WERE ABLE TO BUILD A RAPPORT 260 00:07:13,467 --> 00:07:15,233 PROCESS. WE WERE ABLE TO BUILD A RAPPORT WITH HIM. 261 00:07:15,235 --> 00:07:17,769 WE WERE ABLE TO BUILD A RAPPORT WITH HIM. AND HE TALKED A LOT ABOUT, YOU 262 00:07:17,771 --> 00:07:19,070 WITH HIM. AND HE TALKED A LOT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, REVOLUTIONS AND THE 263 00:07:19,072 --> 00:07:21,440 AND HE TALKED A LOT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, REVOLUTIONS AND THE HISTORY OF REVOLUTIONS. 264 00:07:21,442 --> 00:07:22,274 KNOW, REVOLUTIONS AND THE HISTORY OF REVOLUTIONS. SO I START TELLING HIM ABOUT THE 265 00:07:22,276 --> 00:07:24,609 HISTORY OF REVOLUTIONS. SO I START TELLING HIM ABOUT THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, TOO. 266 00:07:24,611 --> 00:07:26,011 SO I START TELLING HIM ABOUT THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, TOO. AND WE GOT HIM A BOOK IN ARABIC 267 00:07:26,013 --> 00:07:27,078 AMERICAN REVOLUTION, TOO. AND WE GOT HIM A BOOK IN ARABIC ABOUT GEORGE WASHINGTON AND THE 268 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:28,713 AND WE GOT HIM A BOOK IN ARABIC ABOUT GEORGE WASHINGTON AND THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION THAT HE 269 00:07:28,715 --> 00:07:29,247 ABOUT GEORGE WASHINGTON AND THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION THAT HE ACTUALLY STAYED ALL NIGHT 270 00:07:29,249 --> 00:07:30,148 AMERICAN REVOLUTION THAT HE ACTUALLY STAYED ALL NIGHT READING. 271 00:07:30,150 --> 00:07:32,884 ACTUALLY STAYED ALL NIGHT READING. HE WAS FASCINATED BY IT. 272 00:07:32,886 --> 00:07:34,085 READING. HE WAS FASCINATED BY IT. BUT HE'S PRACTICING TYPICAL 273 00:07:34,087 --> 00:07:35,754 HE WAS FASCINATED BY IT. BUT HE'S PRACTICING TYPICAL COUNTER-INTERROGATION 274 00:07:35,756 --> 00:07:39,291 BUT HE'S PRACTICING TYPICAL COUNTER-INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES, WHERE HE GIVES YOU 275 00:07:39,293 --> 00:07:41,226 COUNTER-INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES, WHERE HE GIVES YOU WHAT HE THINKS YOU KNOW SO YOU 276 00:07:41,228 --> 00:07:42,694 TECHNIQUES, WHERE HE GIVES YOU WHAT HE THINKS YOU KNOW SO YOU WILL THINK HE'S COOPERATING. 277 00:07:42,696 --> 00:07:43,829 WHAT HE THINKS YOU KNOW SO YOU WILL THINK HE'S COOPERATING. >> Logan: SOUFAN SAYS WHEN ABU 278 00:07:43,831 --> 00:07:44,830 WILL THINK HE'S COOPERATING. >> Logan: SOUFAN SAYS WHEN ABU JANDAL LOOKED AT A BOOK OF 279 00:07:44,832 --> 00:07:45,330 >> Logan: SOUFAN SAYS WHEN ABU JANDAL LOOKED AT A BOOK OF PHOTOS OF KNOWN AL QAEDA 280 00:07:45,332 --> 00:07:48,567 JANDAL LOOKED AT A BOOK OF PHOTOS OF KNOWN AL QAEDA MEMBERS, HE IDENTIFIED VERY FEW 281 00:07:48,569 --> 00:07:53,438 PHOTOS OF KNOWN AL QAEDA MEMBERS, HE IDENTIFIED VERY FEW AND KEPT PASSING OVER THE PHOTO 282 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,073 MEMBERS, HE IDENTIFIED VERY FEW AND KEPT PASSING OVER THE PHOTO OF THIS MAN, MARWAN AL SHEHHI, 283 00:07:55,075 --> 00:07:58,009 AND KEPT PASSING OVER THE PHOTO OF THIS MAN, MARWAN AL SHEHHI, ONE OF THE 9/11 HIJACKERS. 284 00:07:58,011 --> 00:08:00,745 OF THIS MAN, MARWAN AL SHEHHI, ONE OF THE 9/11 HIJACKERS. SOUFAN KNEW ABU JANDAL HAD CARED 285 00:08:00,747 --> 00:08:01,446 ONE OF THE 9/11 HIJACKERS. SOUFAN KNEW ABU JANDAL HAD CARED FOR EL SHEHHI YEARS AGO WHEN HE 286 00:08:01,448 --> 00:08:03,148 SOUFAN KNEW ABU JANDAL HAD CARED FOR EL SHEHHI YEARS AGO WHEN HE WAS VERY SICK. 287 00:08:03,150 --> 00:08:04,916 FOR EL SHEHHI YEARS AGO WHEN HE WAS VERY SICK. SO THE FACT THAT HE WAS NOT 288 00:08:04,918 --> 00:08:06,284 WAS VERY SICK. SO THE FACT THAT HE WAS NOT IDENTIFYING HIM IMMEDIATELY WAS 289 00:08:06,286 --> 00:08:07,052 SO THE FACT THAT HE WAS NOT IDENTIFYING HIM IMMEDIATELY WAS A SIGNAL TO YOU THAT HE WAS NOT 290 00:08:07,054 --> 00:08:07,619 IDENTIFYING HIM IMMEDIATELY WAS A SIGNAL TO YOU THAT HE WAS NOT BEING HONEST? 291 00:08:07,621 --> 00:08:09,054 A SIGNAL TO YOU THAT HE WAS NOT BEING HONEST? >> Soufan: EXACTLY. 292 00:08:09,056 --> 00:08:10,589 BEING HONEST? >> Soufan: EXACTLY. SO I SAID TO HIM, "SO YOU WANT 293 00:08:10,591 --> 00:08:11,189 >> Soufan: EXACTLY. SO I SAID TO HIM, "SO YOU WANT TO TELL ME YOU DON'T KNOW THIS 294 00:08:11,191 --> 00:08:13,391 SO I SAID TO HIM, "SO YOU WANT TO TELL ME YOU DON'T KNOW THIS GUY? 295 00:08:13,393 --> 00:08:16,561 TO TELL ME YOU DON'T KNOW THIS GUY? KANDAHAR, DECEMBER 1999, 296 00:08:16,563 --> 00:08:19,431 GUY? KANDAHAR, DECEMBER 1999, RAMADAN. 297 00:08:19,433 --> 00:08:20,932 KANDAHAR, DECEMBER 1999, RAMADAN. HE GOT VERY SICK. 298 00:08:20,934 --> 00:08:24,603 RAMADAN. HE GOT VERY SICK. YOU WERE NURSING HIM AND PUTTING 299 00:08:24,605 --> 00:08:25,337 HE GOT VERY SICK. YOU WERE NURSING HIM AND PUTTING SOUP ON HIS LIPS, SO HE WON'T 300 00:08:25,339 --> 00:08:26,671 YOU WERE NURSING HIM AND PUTTING SOUP ON HIS LIPS, SO HE WON'T GET DEHYDRATED." 301 00:08:26,673 --> 00:08:28,440 SOUP ON HIS LIPS, SO HE WON'T GET DEHYDRATED." I TOOK THE BOOK. 302 00:08:28,442 --> 00:08:31,576 GET DEHYDRATED." I TOOK THE BOOK. I SAID, "LET ME MAKE IT VERY 303 00:08:31,578 --> 00:08:33,345 I TOOK THE BOOK. I SAID, "LET ME MAKE IT VERY CLEAR TO YOU. 304 00:08:33,347 --> 00:08:34,813 I SAID, "LET ME MAKE IT VERY CLEAR TO YOU. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE 305 00:08:34,815 --> 00:08:37,249 CLEAR TO YOU. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE BOOK WORKS FOR ME. 306 00:08:37,251 --> 00:08:39,518 YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE BOOK WORKS FOR ME. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE 307 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:40,852 IN THE BOOK WORKS FOR ME. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE BOOK WE CAUGHT AND 308 00:08:40,854 --> 00:08:43,221 YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE BOOK WE CAUGHT AND THEY'RE COOPERATING. 309 00:08:43,223 --> 00:08:44,756 IN THE BOOK WE CAUGHT AND THEY'RE COOPERATING. AND THAT IS THE CARD THAT I HAVE 310 00:08:44,758 --> 00:08:45,390 THEY'RE COOPERATING. AND THAT IS THE CARD THAT I HAVE TO KNOW IF YOU'RE COOPERATING OR 311 00:08:45,392 --> 00:08:46,992 AND THAT IS THE CARD THAT I HAVE TO KNOW IF YOU'RE COOPERATING OR NOT. 312 00:08:46,994 --> 00:08:47,659 TO KNOW IF YOU'RE COOPERATING OR NOT. WHY DON'T YOU LOOK AT THE BOOK 313 00:08:47,661 --> 00:08:48,793 NOT. WHY DON'T YOU LOOK AT THE BOOK AGAIN?" 314 00:08:48,795 --> 00:08:49,961 WHY DON'T YOU LOOK AT THE BOOK AGAIN?" HE IDENTIFIED ALMOST EVERYONE IN 315 00:08:49,963 --> 00:08:51,363 AGAIN?" HE IDENTIFIED ALMOST EVERYONE IN THE BOOK. 316 00:08:51,365 --> 00:08:52,564 HE IDENTIFIED ALMOST EVERYONE IN THE BOOK. >> Logan: AMONG THOSE ABU JANDAL 317 00:08:52,566 --> 00:08:54,432 THE BOOK. >> Logan: AMONG THOSE ABU JANDAL IDENTIFIED AS AL QAEDA MEMBERS 318 00:08:54,434 --> 00:08:55,834 >> Logan: AMONG THOSE ABU JANDAL IDENTIFIED AS AL QAEDA MEMBERS WERE SEVEN OF THE TERRORISTS WHO 319 00:08:55,836 --> 00:08:56,468 IDENTIFIED AS AL QAEDA MEMBERS WERE SEVEN OF THE TERRORISTS WHO FLEW PLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE 320 00:08:56,470 --> 00:08:59,738 WERE SEVEN OF THE TERRORISTS WHO FLEW PLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND THE PENTAGON. 321 00:08:59,740 --> 00:09:00,805 FLEW PLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND THE PENTAGON. ABU JANDAL DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD 322 00:09:00,807 --> 00:09:02,307 CENTER AND THE PENTAGON. ABU JANDAL DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN THE 9/11 PLOT 323 00:09:02,309 --> 00:09:03,942 ABU JANDAL DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN THE 9/11 PLOT BECAUSE HE'D BEEN IN PRISON, AND 324 00:09:03,944 --> 00:09:04,910 BEEN INVOLVED IN THE 9/11 PLOT BECAUSE HE'D BEEN IN PRISON, AND HE INSISTED THAT AL QAEDA WAS 325 00:09:04,912 --> 00:09:08,179 BECAUSE HE'D BEEN IN PRISON, AND HE INSISTED THAT AL QAEDA WAS NOT BEHIND THE ATTACK. 326 00:09:08,181 --> 00:09:09,080 HE INSISTED THAT AL QAEDA WAS NOT BEHIND THE ATTACK. HE DIDN'T BELIEVE IT? 327 00:09:09,082 --> 00:09:10,181 NOT BEHIND THE ATTACK. HE DIDN'T BELIEVE IT? >> Soufan: HE WAS VERY ADAMANT 328 00:09:10,183 --> 00:09:11,883 HE DIDN'T BELIEVE IT? >> Soufan: HE WAS VERY ADAMANT THAT BIN LADEN DIDN'T DO IT. 329 00:09:11,885 --> 00:09:15,787 >> Soufan: HE WAS VERY ADAMANT THAT BIN LADEN DIDN'T DO IT. >> Logan: SO WHAT HAPPENS THEN? 330 00:09:15,789 --> 00:09:16,421 THAT BIN LADEN DIDN'T DO IT. >> Logan: SO WHAT HAPPENS THEN? >> Soufan: I SAID, "WELL, I KNOW 331 00:09:16,423 --> 00:09:16,955 >> Logan: SO WHAT HAPPENS THEN? >> Soufan: I SAID, "WELL, I KNOW THAT AL QAEDA DID THAT. 332 00:09:16,957 --> 00:09:17,422 >> Soufan: I SAID, "WELL, I KNOW THAT AL QAEDA DID THAT. SOMEONE TOLD ME." 333 00:09:17,424 --> 00:09:17,989 THAT AL QAEDA DID THAT. SOMEONE TOLD ME." HE SAID, "WHO TOLD YOU?" 334 00:09:17,991 --> 00:09:18,456 SOMEONE TOLD ME." HE SAID, "WHO TOLD YOU?" I SAID, "YOU DID." 335 00:09:18,458 --> 00:09:19,057 HE SAID, "WHO TOLD YOU?" I SAID, "YOU DID." AND HE GETS SO MAD. 336 00:09:19,059 --> 00:09:19,658 I SAID, "YOU DID." AND HE GETS SO MAD. "YOU'RE PUTTING WORDS IN MY 337 00:09:19,660 --> 00:09:20,392 AND HE GETS SO MAD. "YOU'RE PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. 338 00:09:20,394 --> 00:09:22,561 "YOU'RE PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I NEVER SAID AL QAEDA DID THAT." 339 00:09:22,563 --> 00:09:23,962 MOUTH. I NEVER SAID AL QAEDA DID THAT." I SAID, "DO YOU KNOW WHO FLEW 340 00:09:23,964 --> 00:09:24,930 I NEVER SAID AL QAEDA DID THAT." I SAID, "DO YOU KNOW WHO FLEW THE PLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE 341 00:09:24,932 --> 00:09:27,265 I SAID, "DO YOU KNOW WHO FLEW THE PLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND THE PENTAGON?" 342 00:09:27,267 --> 00:09:28,300 THE PLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND THE PENTAGON?" AND I TOOK THE SEVEN PHOTOS THAT 343 00:09:28,302 --> 00:09:30,068 CENTER AND THE PENTAGON?" AND I TOOK THE SEVEN PHOTOS THAT HE IDENTIFIED AND PUT IT IN 344 00:09:30,070 --> 00:09:31,469 AND I TOOK THE SEVEN PHOTOS THAT HE IDENTIFIED AND PUT IT IN FRONT OF HIM. 345 00:09:31,471 --> 00:09:32,871 HE IDENTIFIED AND PUT IT IN FRONT OF HIM. I SAID, "THOSE, MY FRIEND, ARE 346 00:09:32,873 --> 00:09:34,573 FRONT OF HIM. I SAID, "THOSE, MY FRIEND, ARE NOT MY SOURCES; THOSE ARE THE 347 00:09:34,575 --> 00:09:37,576 I SAID, "THOSE, MY FRIEND, ARE NOT MY SOURCES; THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO FLEW THE PLANES." 348 00:09:37,578 --> 00:09:38,043 NOT MY SOURCES; THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO FLEW THE PLANES." HE TOTALLY COLLAPSED. 349 00:09:38,045 --> 00:09:39,377 PEOPLE WHO FLEW THE PLANES." HE TOTALLY COLLAPSED. >> Logan: HE COLLAPSED? 350 00:09:39,379 --> 00:09:40,712 HE TOTALLY COLLAPSED. >> Logan: HE COLLAPSED? >> Soufan: HE PUT HIS HANDS LIKE 351 00:09:40,714 --> 00:09:43,114 >> Logan: HE COLLAPSED? >> Soufan: HE PUT HIS HANDS LIKE THIS ON HIS FACE AND WENT DOWN. 352 00:09:43,116 --> 00:09:45,116 >> Soufan: HE PUT HIS HANDS LIKE THIS ON HIS FACE AND WENT DOWN. AND HE STARTS SHAKING. 353 00:09:45,118 --> 00:09:46,284 THIS ON HIS FACE AND WENT DOWN. AND HE STARTS SHAKING. HE KNEW WHAT HE DID. 354 00:09:46,286 --> 00:09:47,852 AND HE STARTS SHAKING. HE KNEW WHAT HE DID. >> Logan: HE KNEW THAT HE... 355 00:09:47,854 --> 00:09:48,720 HE KNEW WHAT HE DID. >> Logan: HE KNEW THAT HE... >> Soufan: HE JUST GAVE UP BIN 356 00:09:48,722 --> 00:09:49,821 >> Logan: HE KNEW THAT HE... >> Soufan: HE JUST GAVE UP BIN LADEN, HE JUST GAVE UP AL QAEDA 357 00:09:49,823 --> 00:09:51,122 >> Soufan: HE JUST GAVE UP BIN LADEN, HE JUST GAVE UP AL QAEDA ON 9/11. 358 00:09:51,124 --> 00:09:52,724 LADEN, HE JUST GAVE UP AL QAEDA ON 9/11. AND AFTER THAT, THE LEVEL OF 359 00:09:52,726 --> 00:09:55,894 ON 9/11. AND AFTER THAT, THE LEVEL OF COOPERATION WAS VERY DIFFERENT. 360 00:09:55,896 --> 00:09:58,763 AND AFTER THAT, THE LEVEL OF COOPERATION WAS VERY DIFFERENT. WE ENDED UP SPENDING DAYS AND 361 00:09:58,765 --> 00:10:01,299 COOPERATION WAS VERY DIFFERENT. WE ENDED UP SPENDING DAYS AND DAYS WITH HIM. 362 00:10:01,301 --> 00:10:02,734 WE ENDED UP SPENDING DAYS AND DAYS WITH HIM. >> Logan: ABU JANDAL PROVIDED 363 00:10:02,736 --> 00:10:04,269 DAYS WITH HIM. >> Logan: ABU JANDAL PROVIDED NEARLY 100 PAGES OF INFORMATION, 364 00:10:04,271 --> 00:10:07,238 >> Logan: ABU JANDAL PROVIDED NEARLY 100 PAGES OF INFORMATION, ACCORDING TO SOUFAN'S FBI 365 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:08,273 NEARLY 100 PAGES OF INFORMATION, ACCORDING TO SOUFAN'S FBI REPORT, INCLUDING INTRICATE 366 00:10:08,275 --> 00:10:09,441 ACCORDING TO SOUFAN'S FBI REPORT, INCLUDING INTRICATE DETAILS ABOUT AL QAEDA'S 367 00:10:09,443 --> 00:10:16,948 REPORT, INCLUDING INTRICATE DETAILS ABOUT AL QAEDA'S "TRAINING FACILITIES," 368 00:10:16,950 --> 00:10:17,582 DETAILS ABOUT AL QAEDA'S "TRAINING FACILITIES," "COMMUNICATIONS" AND "WEAPONRY." 369 00:10:17,584 --> 00:10:18,216 "TRAINING FACILITIES," "COMMUNICATIONS" AND "WEAPONRY." IT WAS QUITE AN ACHIEVEMENT FOR 370 00:10:18,218 --> 00:10:18,750 "COMMUNICATIONS" AND "WEAPONRY." IT WAS QUITE AN ACHIEVEMENT FOR SOMEONE WHO MIGHT BEST BE 371 00:10:18,752 --> 00:10:19,351 IT WAS QUITE AN ACHIEVEMENT FOR SOMEONE WHO MIGHT BEST BE DESCRIBED AS AN ACCIDENTAL FBI 372 00:10:19,353 --> 00:10:20,151 SOMEONE WHO MIGHT BEST BE DESCRIBED AS AN ACCIDENTAL FBI AGENT. 373 00:10:20,153 --> 00:10:21,553 DESCRIBED AS AN ACCIDENTAL FBI AGENT. SOUFAN GREW UP IN LEBANON DURING 374 00:10:21,555 --> 00:10:24,556 AGENT. SOUFAN GREW UP IN LEBANON DURING THAT COUNTRY'S BRUTAL CIVIL WAR, 375 00:10:24,558 --> 00:10:25,924 SOUFAN GREW UP IN LEBANON DURING THAT COUNTRY'S BRUTAL CIVIL WAR, AND HE MOVED WITH HIS FAMILY TO 376 00:10:25,926 --> 00:10:29,027 THAT COUNTRY'S BRUTAL CIVIL WAR, AND HE MOVED WITH HIS FAMILY TO THE U.S. WHEN HE WAS 17. 377 00:10:29,029 --> 00:10:30,195 AND HE MOVED WITH HIS FAMILY TO THE U.S. WHEN HE WAS 17. HE WAS A FRAT BOY AT MANSFIELD 378 00:10:30,197 --> 00:10:31,863 THE U.S. WHEN HE WAS 17. HE WAS A FRAT BOY AT MANSFIELD UNIVERSITY IN PENNSYLVANIA, 379 00:10:31,865 --> 00:10:34,566 HE WAS A FRAT BOY AT MANSFIELD UNIVERSITY IN PENNSYLVANIA, PLANNING A CAREER IN ACADEMIA, 380 00:10:34,568 --> 00:10:35,467 UNIVERSITY IN PENNSYLVANIA, PLANNING A CAREER IN ACADEMIA, WHEN A COLLEGE ADMINISTRATOR 381 00:10:35,469 --> 00:10:36,201 PLANNING A CAREER IN ACADEMIA, WHEN A COLLEGE ADMINISTRATOR SUGGESTED HE APPLY FOR A JOB 382 00:10:36,203 --> 00:10:38,637 WHEN A COLLEGE ADMINISTRATOR SUGGESTED HE APPLY FOR A JOB WITH THE FBI. 383 00:10:38,639 --> 00:10:40,005 SUGGESTED HE APPLY FOR A JOB WITH THE FBI. >> Soufan: WHEN HE SAID THAT, I 384 00:10:40,007 --> 00:10:41,272 WITH THE FBI. >> Soufan: WHEN HE SAID THAT, I WAS LIKE... AS IF HE WAS TELLING 385 00:10:41,274 --> 00:10:42,040 >> Soufan: WHEN HE SAID THAT, I WAS LIKE... AS IF HE WAS TELLING ME, "YOU'RE GOING TO BE, LIKE, 386 00:10:42,042 --> 00:10:43,074 WAS LIKE... AS IF HE WAS TELLING ME, "YOU'RE GOING TO BE, LIKE, IN THE CIRCUS, OR YOU'RE GOING 387 00:10:43,076 --> 00:10:44,142 ME, "YOU'RE GOING TO BE, LIKE, IN THE CIRCUS, OR YOU'RE GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, A RACECAR 388 00:10:44,144 --> 00:10:45,443 IN THE CIRCUS, OR YOU'RE GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, A RACECAR DRIVER." 389 00:10:45,445 --> 00:10:46,478 TO BE, YOU KNOW, A RACECAR DRIVER." I MEAN, "FBI? 390 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:47,479 DRIVER." I MEAN, "FBI? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT," YOU 391 00:10:47,481 --> 00:10:47,679 I MEAN, "FBI? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT," YOU KNOW? 392 00:10:47,681 --> 00:10:49,881 WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT," YOU KNOW? PEOPLE WERE LAUGHING. 393 00:10:49,883 --> 00:10:50,515 KNOW? PEOPLE WERE LAUGHING. MY FRIENDS... 394 00:10:50,517 --> 00:10:51,816 PEOPLE WERE LAUGHING. MY FRIENDS... >> Logan: YOUR FRAT BROTHERS. 395 00:10:51,818 --> 00:10:52,484 MY FRIENDS... >> Logan: YOUR FRAT BROTHERS. >> Soufan: YEAH, WERE LAUGHING. 396 00:10:52,486 --> 00:10:53,585 >> Logan: YOUR FRAT BROTHERS. >> Soufan: YEAH, WERE LAUGHING. I'M LIKE, "THEY WILL SEND YOU 397 00:10:53,587 --> 00:10:54,853 >> Soufan: YEAH, WERE LAUGHING. I'M LIKE, "THEY WILL SEND YOU BACK THE APPLICATION." 398 00:10:54,855 --> 00:10:55,420 I'M LIKE, "THEY WILL SEND YOU BACK THE APPLICATION." >> Logan: A LITTLE BIT OF A 399 00:10:55,422 --> 00:10:57,555 BACK THE APPLICATION." >> Logan: A LITTLE BIT OF A CHALLENGE. 400 00:10:57,557 --> 00:10:59,024 >> Logan: A LITTLE BIT OF A CHALLENGE. >> Soufan: I WAS LIKE, "OKAY. 401 00:10:59,026 --> 00:11:01,192 CHALLENGE. >> Soufan: I WAS LIKE, "OKAY. WE'LL SEE ABOUT THAT." 402 00:11:01,194 --> 00:11:02,060 >> Soufan: I WAS LIKE, "OKAY. WE'LL SEE ABOUT THAT." >> Logan: IN 1997, AFTER GETTING 403 00:11:02,062 --> 00:11:03,828 WE'LL SEE ABOUT THAT." >> Logan: IN 1997, AFTER GETTING A MASTER'S DEGREE IN 404 00:11:03,830 --> 00:11:05,330 >> Logan: IN 1997, AFTER GETTING A MASTER'S DEGREE IN INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, HE 405 00:11:05,332 --> 00:11:06,965 A MASTER'S DEGREE IN INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, HE JOINED THE FBI'S NEW YORK OFFICE 406 00:11:06,967 --> 00:11:09,200 INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, HE JOINED THE FBI'S NEW YORK OFFICE AS A ROOKIE COUNTER-TERRORISM 407 00:11:09,202 --> 00:11:10,969 JOINED THE FBI'S NEW YORK OFFICE AS A ROOKIE COUNTER-TERRORISM AGENT, AND HE WAS LITTLE MORE 408 00:11:10,971 --> 00:11:12,170 AS A ROOKIE COUNTER-TERRORISM AGENT, AND HE WAS LITTLE MORE THAN THREE YEARS ON THE JOB WHEN 409 00:11:12,172 --> 00:11:15,240 AGENT, AND HE WAS LITTLE MORE THAN THREE YEARS ON THE JOB WHEN HE WAS MADE THE CASE AGENT FOR 410 00:11:15,242 --> 00:11:16,241 THAN THREE YEARS ON THE JOB WHEN HE WAS MADE THE CASE AGENT FOR THE FBI'S INVESTIGATION OF THE 411 00:11:16,243 --> 00:11:20,011 HE WAS MADE THE CASE AGENT FOR THE FBI'S INVESTIGATION OF THE ATTACK ON THE U.S.S. "COLE." 412 00:11:20,013 --> 00:11:22,013 THE FBI'S INVESTIGATION OF THE ATTACK ON THE U.S.S. "COLE." IN MARCH 2002, THE U.S. CAPTURED 413 00:11:22,015 --> 00:11:25,684 ATTACK ON THE U.S.S. "COLE." IN MARCH 2002, THE U.S. CAPTURED ITS FIRST HIGH-VALUE TERRORIST 414 00:11:25,686 --> 00:11:26,384 IN MARCH 2002, THE U.S. CAPTURED ITS FIRST HIGH-VALUE TERRORIST OPERATIVE, ABU ZUBAYDAH, AFTER A 415 00:11:26,386 --> 00:11:30,355 ITS FIRST HIGH-VALUE TERRORIST OPERATIVE, ABU ZUBAYDAH, AFTER A FIRE-FIGHT IN PAKISTAN. 416 00:11:30,357 --> 00:11:31,623 OPERATIVE, ABU ZUBAYDAH, AFTER A FIRE-FIGHT IN PAKISTAN. ALI SOUFAN AND HIS PARTNER WERE 417 00:11:31,625 --> 00:11:32,891 FIRE-FIGHT IN PAKISTAN. ALI SOUFAN AND HIS PARTNER WERE CALLED IN TO ASSIST IN THE CIA 418 00:11:32,893 --> 00:11:34,592 ALI SOUFAN AND HIS PARTNER WERE CALLED IN TO ASSIST IN THE CIA INTERROGATION AT A SECRET 419 00:11:34,594 --> 00:11:36,494 CALLED IN TO ASSIST IN THE CIA INTERROGATION AT A SECRET LOCATION IN THAILAND. 420 00:11:36,496 --> 00:11:37,228 INTERROGATION AT A SECRET LOCATION IN THAILAND. ABU ZUBAYDAH WAS SEVERELY 421 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:37,796 LOCATION IN THAILAND. ABU ZUBAYDAH WAS SEVERELY WOUNDED BUT STILL ABLE TO 422 00:11:37,798 --> 00:11:39,364 ABU ZUBAYDAH WAS SEVERELY WOUNDED BUT STILL ABLE TO COMMUNICATE. 423 00:11:39,366 --> 00:11:41,733 WOUNDED BUT STILL ABLE TO COMMUNICATE. FROM U.S. INTELLIGENCE FILES, 424 00:11:41,735 --> 00:11:43,201 COMMUNICATE. FROM U.S. INTELLIGENCE FILES, SOUFAN HAD LEARNED A LOT ABOUT 425 00:11:43,203 --> 00:11:44,669 FROM U.S. INTELLIGENCE FILES, SOUFAN HAD LEARNED A LOT ABOUT ABU ZUBAYDAH, AND HE TOLD US HE 426 00:11:44,671 --> 00:11:45,637 SOUFAN HAD LEARNED A LOT ABOUT ABU ZUBAYDAH, AND HE TOLD US HE PUT THAT KNOWLEDGE TO GOOD USE 427 00:11:45,639 --> 00:11:48,773 ABU ZUBAYDAH, AND HE TOLD US HE PUT THAT KNOWLEDGE TO GOOD USE RIGHT WAY. 428 00:11:48,775 --> 00:11:50,208 PUT THAT KNOWLEDGE TO GOOD USE RIGHT WAY. >> Soufan: WHEN I FIRST MET HIM, 429 00:11:50,210 --> 00:11:52,744 RIGHT WAY. >> Soufan: WHEN I FIRST MET HIM, I ASKED HIM HIS NAME, AND HE 430 00:11:52,746 --> 00:11:54,245 >> Soufan: WHEN I FIRST MET HIM, I ASKED HIM HIS NAME, AND HE GAVE ME A FAKE NAME. 431 00:11:54,247 --> 00:11:54,779 I ASKED HIM HIS NAME, AND HE GAVE ME A FAKE NAME. >> Logan: "DAWUD." 432 00:11:54,781 --> 00:11:55,380 GAVE ME A FAKE NAME. >> Logan: "DAWUD." >> Soufan: A DIFFERENT NAME-- 433 00:11:55,382 --> 00:11:58,917 >> Logan: "DAWUD." >> Soufan: A DIFFERENT NAME-- "DAWUD." 434 00:11:58,919 --> 00:11:59,517 >> Soufan: A DIFFERENT NAME-- "DAWUD." AND I SAID TO HIM, "WHAT IF I 435 00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:02,020 "DAWUD." AND I SAID TO HIM, "WHAT IF I CALL YOU 'HANI'?" 436 00:12:02,022 --> 00:12:02,587 AND I SAID TO HIM, "WHAT IF I CALL YOU 'HANI'?" AND THE LOOK ON HIS FACE WAS 437 00:12:02,589 --> 00:12:02,987 CALL YOU 'HANI'?" AND THE LOOK ON HIS FACE WAS LIKE... 438 00:12:02,989 --> 00:12:04,823 AND THE LOOK ON HIS FACE WAS LIKE... YOU KNOW? 439 00:12:04,825 --> 00:12:05,724 LIKE... YOU KNOW? LIKE... YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOU 440 00:12:05,726 --> 00:12:06,291 YOU KNOW? LIKE... YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOU KNOW, "THAT'S IT. 441 00:12:06,293 --> 00:12:08,626 LIKE... YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOU KNOW, "THAT'S IT. IT'S OVER." 442 00:12:08,628 --> 00:12:10,729 KNOW, "THAT'S IT. IT'S OVER." AND HE JUST LOOKED AT ME AND 443 00:12:10,731 --> 00:12:12,230 IT'S OVER." AND HE JUST LOOKED AT ME AND HE... JUST SHOOK HIS HEAD. 444 00:12:12,232 --> 00:12:13,631 AND HE JUST LOOKED AT ME AND HE... JUST SHOOK HIS HEAD. HE WAS SHOCKED. 445 00:12:13,633 --> 00:12:16,668 HE... JUST SHOOK HIS HEAD. HE WAS SHOCKED. "HANI" IS THE NAME THAT HIS 446 00:12:16,670 --> 00:12:17,936 HE WAS SHOCKED. "HANI" IS THE NAME THAT HIS MOTHER CALLED HIM AS A CHILD. 447 00:12:17,938 --> 00:12:19,037 "HANI" IS THE NAME THAT HIS MOTHER CALLED HIM AS A CHILD. SO HE KNEW THAT I KNOW 448 00:12:19,039 --> 00:12:19,971 MOTHER CALLED HIM AS A CHILD. SO HE KNEW THAT I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM. 449 00:12:19,973 --> 00:12:20,605 SO HE KNEW THAT I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM. >> Logan: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT 450 00:12:20,607 --> 00:12:22,307 EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM. >> Logan: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT MATTERED SO MUCH? 451 00:12:22,309 --> 00:12:25,944 >> Logan: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT MATTERED SO MUCH? >> Soufan: IT KIND OF TOLD HIM 452 00:12:25,946 --> 00:12:26,578 MATTERED SO MUCH? >> Soufan: IT KIND OF TOLD HIM THAT YOU CANNOT PLAY GAMES WITH 453 00:12:26,580 --> 00:12:27,145 >> Soufan: IT KIND OF TOLD HIM THAT YOU CANNOT PLAY GAMES WITH US. 454 00:12:27,147 --> 00:12:28,546 THAT YOU CANNOT PLAY GAMES WITH US. WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE. 455 00:12:28,548 --> 00:12:29,247 US. WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE. >> Logan: AND WHAT DO YOU THINK 456 00:12:29,249 --> 00:12:29,981 WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE. >> Logan: AND WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT 457 00:12:29,983 --> 00:12:30,548 >> Logan: AND WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION THAT CAME OUT OF 458 00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:31,683 IS THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION THAT CAME OUT OF THAT? 459 00:12:31,685 --> 00:12:32,917 INFORMATION THAT CAME OUT OF THAT? >> Soufan: THE MOST IMPORTANT 460 00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:34,085 THAT? >> Soufan: THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION IS IDENTIFYING 461 00:12:34,087 --> 00:12:35,954 >> Soufan: THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION IS IDENTIFYING KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED AS A 462 00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:40,191 INFORMATION IS IDENTIFYING KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED AS A MASTERMIND OF 9/11. 463 00:12:40,193 --> 00:12:40,892 KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED AS A MASTERMIND OF 9/11. >> Logan: AT THE TIME, KHALID 464 00:12:40,894 --> 00:12:41,826 MASTERMIND OF 9/11. >> Logan: AT THE TIME, KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, OR "KSM", WAS 465 00:12:41,828 --> 00:12:42,994 >> Logan: AT THE TIME, KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, OR "KSM", WAS ON THE FBI'S MOST WANTED LIST 466 00:12:42,996 --> 00:12:47,132 SHEIKH MOHAMMED, OR "KSM", WAS ON THE FBI'S MOST WANTED LIST FOR OTHER TERRORIST PLOTS. 467 00:12:47,134 --> 00:12:49,467 ON THE FBI'S MOST WANTED LIST FOR OTHER TERRORIST PLOTS. U.S. INTELLIGENCE SUSPECTED HE 468 00:12:49,469 --> 00:12:50,702 FOR OTHER TERRORIST PLOTS. U.S. INTELLIGENCE SUSPECTED HE WAS INVOLVED IN 9/11, BUT THE 469 00:12:50,704 --> 00:12:52,904 U.S. INTELLIGENCE SUSPECTED HE WAS INVOLVED IN 9/11, BUT THE FBI DIDN'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE OF 470 00:12:52,906 --> 00:12:54,873 WAS INVOLVED IN 9/11, BUT THE FBI DIDN'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE OF THAT. 471 00:12:54,875 --> 00:12:56,541 FBI DIDN'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE OF THAT. ALI SOUFAN AND HIS PARTNER, 472 00:12:56,543 --> 00:12:57,509 THAT. ALI SOUFAN AND HIS PARTNER, STEVE GAUDIN, MEANT TO SHOW ABU 473 00:12:57,511 --> 00:12:59,077 ALI SOUFAN AND HIS PARTNER, STEVE GAUDIN, MEANT TO SHOW ABU ZUBAYDAH A PHOTO OF SOMEONE ELSE 474 00:12:59,079 --> 00:13:00,845 STEVE GAUDIN, MEANT TO SHOW ABU ZUBAYDAH A PHOTO OF SOMEONE ELSE ON THE MOST WANTED LIST, BUT 475 00:13:00,847 --> 00:13:04,382 ZUBAYDAH A PHOTO OF SOMEONE ELSE ON THE MOST WANTED LIST, BUT THEY SHOWED ABU ZUBAYDAH THIS 476 00:13:04,384 --> 00:13:05,216 ON THE MOST WANTED LIST, BUT THEY SHOWED ABU ZUBAYDAH THIS PHOTO OF K.S.M. BY MISTAKE. 477 00:13:05,218 --> 00:13:05,917 THEY SHOWED ABU ZUBAYDAH THIS PHOTO OF K.S.M. BY MISTAKE. >> Soufan: HE LOOKS AT ME AND HE 478 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:06,584 PHOTO OF K.S.M. BY MISTAKE. >> Soufan: HE LOOKS AT ME AND HE SAYS, "DON'T PLAY GAMES WITH ME, 479 00:13:06,586 --> 00:13:07,152 >> Soufan: HE LOOKS AT ME AND HE SAYS, "DON'T PLAY GAMES WITH ME, BROTHER. 480 00:13:07,154 --> 00:13:08,052 SAYS, "DON'T PLAY GAMES WITH ME, BROTHER. DON'T PLAY GAMES WITH ME. 481 00:13:08,054 --> 00:13:11,289 BROTHER. DON'T PLAY GAMES WITH ME. YOU KNOW WHO THIS GUY. 482 00:13:11,291 --> 00:13:12,824 DON'T PLAY GAMES WITH ME. YOU KNOW WHO THIS GUY. THIS IS... THIS IS MUKHTAR. 483 00:13:12,826 --> 00:13:14,125 YOU KNOW WHO THIS GUY. THIS IS... THIS IS MUKHTAR. THIS IS MASTERMIND OF THE PLANE 484 00:13:14,127 --> 00:13:15,326 THIS IS... THIS IS MUKHTAR. THIS IS MASTERMIND OF THE PLANE OPERATIONS." 485 00:13:15,328 --> 00:13:16,761 THIS IS MASTERMIND OF THE PLANE OPERATIONS." >> Logan: OF 9/11? 486 00:13:16,763 --> 00:13:18,963 OPERATIONS." >> Logan: OF 9/11? >> Soufan: THAT'S WHAT AL QAEDA 487 00:13:18,965 --> 00:13:19,597 >> Logan: OF 9/11? >> Soufan: THAT'S WHAT AL QAEDA CALL 9/11, "THE PLANE 488 00:13:19,599 --> 00:13:20,632 >> Soufan: THAT'S WHAT AL QAEDA CALL 9/11, "THE PLANE OPERATIONS." 489 00:13:20,634 --> 00:13:21,499 CALL 9/11, "THE PLANE OPERATIONS." >> Logan: MUKHTAR? 490 00:13:21,501 --> 00:13:21,800 OPERATIONS." >> Logan: MUKHTAR? THAT'S... 491 00:13:21,802 --> 00:13:22,467 >> Logan: MUKHTAR? THAT'S... >> Soufan: MUKHTAR. 492 00:13:22,469 --> 00:13:23,067 THAT'S... >> Soufan: MUKHTAR. >> Logan: ...THE NAME HE USES? 493 00:13:23,069 --> 00:13:23,668 >> Soufan: MUKHTAR. >> Logan: ...THE NAME HE USES? >> Soufan: THAT WAS THE ALIAS 494 00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:24,536 >> Logan: ...THE NAME HE USES? >> Soufan: THAT WAS THE ALIAS FOR KSM. 495 00:13:24,538 --> 00:13:26,337 >> Soufan: THAT WAS THE ALIAS FOR KSM. >> Logan: DID YOU KNOW THAT? 496 00:13:26,339 --> 00:13:27,705 FOR KSM. >> Logan: DID YOU KNOW THAT? >> Soufan: NO. 497 00:13:27,707 --> 00:13:28,239 >> Logan: DID YOU KNOW THAT? >> Soufan: NO. I HAD NO IDEA. 498 00:13:28,241 --> 00:13:29,240 >> Soufan: NO. I HAD NO IDEA. THE ONLY THING I KNEW AT THE 499 00:13:29,242 --> 00:13:29,841 I HAD NO IDEA. THE ONLY THING I KNEW AT THE TIME, I'M LOOKING FOR A 500 00:13:29,843 --> 00:13:30,875 THE ONLY THING I KNEW AT THE TIME, I'M LOOKING FOR A "MUKHTAR." 501 00:13:30,877 --> 00:13:32,043 TIME, I'M LOOKING FOR A "MUKHTAR." SO, WHEN HE SAID "MUKHTAR," IT 502 00:13:32,045 --> 00:13:35,547 "MUKHTAR." SO, WHEN HE SAID "MUKHTAR," IT KIND OF, LIKE, CLICKED. 503 00:13:35,549 --> 00:13:36,714 SO, WHEN HE SAID "MUKHTAR," IT KIND OF, LIKE, CLICKED. SO I LOOKED AT IT AND I SAID, 504 00:13:36,716 --> 00:13:37,282 KIND OF, LIKE, CLICKED. SO I LOOKED AT IT AND I SAID, "OH, STEVE, YOU GAVE ME THE 505 00:13:37,284 --> 00:13:38,983 SO I LOOKED AT IT AND I SAID, "OH, STEVE, YOU GAVE ME THE WRONG PHOTO." 506 00:13:38,985 --> 00:13:41,386 "OH, STEVE, YOU GAVE ME THE WRONG PHOTO." AND I GAVE IT TO STEVE, SO HE 507 00:13:41,388 --> 00:13:42,253 WRONG PHOTO." AND I GAVE IT TO STEVE, SO HE WILL KNOW WHO THE MASTERMIND OF 508 00:13:42,255 --> 00:13:44,589 AND I GAVE IT TO STEVE, SO HE WILL KNOW WHO THE MASTERMIND OF 9/11 IS. 509 00:13:44,591 --> 00:13:45,223 WILL KNOW WHO THE MASTERMIND OF 9/11 IS. >> Logan: YOU'RE PLAYING IT VERY 510 00:13:45,225 --> 00:13:45,824 9/11 IS. >> Logan: YOU'RE PLAYING IT VERY COOL, BUT WHAT'S GOING THROUGH 511 00:13:45,826 --> 00:13:47,559 >> Logan: YOU'RE PLAYING IT VERY COOL, BUT WHAT'S GOING THROUGH YOUR HEAD, REALLY? 512 00:13:47,561 --> 00:13:50,728 COOL, BUT WHAT'S GOING THROUGH YOUR HEAD, REALLY? >> Soufan: "HOLY ( BLEEP )! 513 00:13:50,730 --> 00:13:52,831 YOUR HEAD, REALLY? >> Soufan: "HOLY ( BLEEP )! K.S.M. IS AN AL QAEDA GUY, THE 514 00:13:52,833 --> 00:13:54,232 >> Soufan: "HOLY ( BLEEP )! K.S.M. IS AN AL QAEDA GUY, THE ONE IN 9/11?" 515 00:13:54,234 --> 00:13:55,266 K.S.M. IS AN AL QAEDA GUY, THE ONE IN 9/11?" >> Logan: IT WAS AN ACCIDENT? 516 00:13:55,268 --> 00:13:55,733 ONE IN 9/11?" >> Logan: IT WAS AN ACCIDENT? >> Soufan: TOTALLY. 517 00:13:55,735 --> 00:13:57,836 >> Logan: IT WAS AN ACCIDENT? >> Soufan: TOTALLY. TOTALLY. 518 00:13:57,838 --> 00:13:59,671 >> Soufan: TOTALLY. TOTALLY. >> Logan: SOUFAN SAYS HE 519 00:13:59,673 --> 00:14:00,405 TOTALLY. >> Logan: SOUFAN SAYS HE BELIEVES ABU ZUBAYDAH DIDN'T 520 00:14:00,407 --> 00:14:01,539 >> Logan: SOUFAN SAYS HE BELIEVES ABU ZUBAYDAH DIDN'T MEAN TO DIVULGE IMPORTANT 521 00:14:01,541 --> 00:14:03,675 BELIEVES ABU ZUBAYDAH DIDN'T MEAN TO DIVULGE IMPORTANT INFORMATION, AND WAS TRYING TO 522 00:14:03,677 --> 00:14:09,714 MEAN TO DIVULGE IMPORTANT INFORMATION, AND WAS TRYING TO GIVE UP AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. 523 00:14:09,716 --> 00:14:10,982 INFORMATION, AND WAS TRYING TO GIVE UP AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. WAS HE WELL VERSED IN 524 00:14:10,984 --> 00:14:11,449 GIVE UP AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. WAS HE WELL VERSED IN >> Logan: ...COUNTER- 525 00:14:11,451 --> 00:14:11,850 WAS HE WELL VERSED IN >> Logan: ...COUNTER- INTELLIGENCE? 526 00:14:11,852 --> 00:14:12,250 >> Logan: ...COUNTER- INTELLIGENCE? >> Soufan: YES. 527 00:14:12,252 --> 00:14:13,585 INTELLIGENCE? >> Soufan: YES. HE'S... HE'S DEFINITELY WELL 528 00:14:13,587 --> 00:14:14,219 >> Soufan: YES. HE'S... HE'S DEFINITELY WELL VERSED IN COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE. 529 00:14:14,221 --> 00:14:16,187 HE'S... HE'S DEFINITELY WELL VERSED IN COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE. COUNTER-INTERROGATION. 530 00:14:16,189 --> 00:14:23,595 VERSED IN COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE. COUNTER-INTERROGATION. HE IS A SMART... HE IS, I CAN 531 00:14:23,597 --> 00:14:25,697 COUNTER-INTERROGATION. HE IS A SMART... HE IS, I CAN ACTUALLY SAY, BORDERLINE GENIUS. 532 00:14:25,699 --> 00:14:26,364 HE IS A SMART... HE IS, I CAN ACTUALLY SAY, BORDERLINE GENIUS. YOU KNOW, I... I HEAR A LOT OF 533 00:14:26,366 --> 00:14:26,998 ACTUALLY SAY, BORDERLINE GENIUS. YOU KNOW, I... I HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING HE'S AN IDIOT. 534 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,234 YOU KNOW, I... I HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING HE'S AN IDIOT. HE'S... NO, HE'S... HE'S 535 00:14:29,236 --> 00:14:29,834 PEOPLE SAYING HE'S AN IDIOT. HE'S... NO, HE'S... HE'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE SMARTEST 536 00:14:29,836 --> 00:14:31,069 HE'S... NO, HE'S... HE'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE I INTERROGATED. 537 00:14:31,071 --> 00:14:31,970 PROBABLY ONE OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE I INTERROGATED. >> Logan: SOUFAN THOUGHT HE AND 538 00:14:31,972 --> 00:14:34,505 PEOPLE I INTERROGATED. >> Logan: SOUFAN THOUGHT HE AND HIS PARTNER WERE MAKING 539 00:14:34,507 --> 00:14:35,773 >> Logan: SOUFAN THOUGHT HE AND HIS PARTNER WERE MAKING PROGRESS, BUT HE SAYS EVERYTHING 540 00:14:35,775 --> 00:14:37,375 HIS PARTNER WERE MAKING PROGRESS, BUT HE SAYS EVERYTHING ABRUPTLY CHANGED AFTER TEN DAYS 541 00:14:37,377 --> 00:14:39,344 PROGRESS, BUT HE SAYS EVERYTHING ABRUPTLY CHANGED AFTER TEN DAYS WHEN HE WAS TOLD TO STOP TALKING 542 00:14:39,346 --> 00:14:40,578 ABRUPTLY CHANGED AFTER TEN DAYS WHEN HE WAS TOLD TO STOP TALKING TO ABU ZUBAYDAH. 543 00:14:40,580 --> 00:14:42,180 WHEN HE WAS TOLD TO STOP TALKING TO ABU ZUBAYDAH. >> Soufan: THE C.T.C. TEAM, THE 544 00:14:42,182 --> 00:14:43,314 TO ABU ZUBAYDAH. >> Soufan: THE C.T.C. TEAM, THE COUNTER-TERRORISM CENTER TEAM, 545 00:14:43,316 --> 00:14:44,582 >> Soufan: THE C.T.C. TEAM, THE COUNTER-TERRORISM CENTER TEAM, ARRIVED. 546 00:14:44,584 --> 00:14:45,516 COUNTER-TERRORISM CENTER TEAM, ARRIVED. >> Logan: OF THE CIA. 547 00:14:45,518 --> 00:14:47,085 ARRIVED. >> Logan: OF THE CIA. >> Soufan: OF THE CIA. 548 00:14:47,087 --> 00:14:48,386 >> Logan: OF THE CIA. >> Soufan: OF THE CIA. SO WE TOLD THEM, FROM OUR 549 00:14:48,388 --> 00:14:49,921 >> Soufan: OF THE CIA. SO WE TOLD THEM, FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THAT HE HAS BEEN 550 00:14:49,923 --> 00:14:55,293 SO WE TOLD THEM, FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THAT HE HAS BEEN COOPERATING. 551 00:14:55,295 --> 00:14:55,860 PERSPECTIVE, THAT HE HAS BEEN COOPERATING. WE JUST GOT INFORMATION THAT 552 00:14:55,862 --> 00:14:56,427 COOPERATING. WE JUST GOT INFORMATION THAT K.S.M. IS THE MASTERMIND OF 553 00:14:56,429 --> 00:14:59,664 WE JUST GOT INFORMATION THAT K.S.M. IS THE MASTERMIND OF 9/11. 554 00:14:59,666 --> 00:15:01,966 K.S.M. IS THE MASTERMIND OF 9/11. THEY SAID, "WELL, YEAH, BUT 555 00:15:01,968 --> 00:15:04,068 9/11. THEY SAID, "WELL, YEAH, BUT THERE'S A BELIEF THAT THERE'S A 556 00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:05,937 THEY SAID, "WELL, YEAH, BUT THERE'S A BELIEF THAT THERE'S A LOT MORE INFORMATION, AND HE'S 557 00:15:05,939 --> 00:15:09,774 THERE'S A BELIEF THAT THERE'S A LOT MORE INFORMATION, AND HE'S NOT GIVING IT UP YET." 558 00:15:09,776 --> 00:15:12,143 LOT MORE INFORMATION, AND HE'S NOT GIVING IT UP YET." SO IT ENDED UP THAT THERE'S A 559 00:15:12,145 --> 00:15:13,444 NOT GIVING IT UP YET." SO IT ENDED UP THAT THERE'S A PLAN ALREADY DECIDED IN 560 00:15:13,446 --> 00:15:14,979 SO IT ENDED UP THAT THERE'S A PLAN ALREADY DECIDED IN WASHINGTON THAT WAS BASICALLY TO 561 00:15:14,981 --> 00:15:17,515 PLAN ALREADY DECIDED IN WASHINGTON THAT WAS BASICALLY TO STRATEGICALLY DIMINISH HIS 562 00:15:17,517 --> 00:15:20,285 WASHINGTON THAT WAS BASICALLY TO STRATEGICALLY DIMINISH HIS "ABILITY TO RESIST," AS... AS 563 00:15:20,287 --> 00:15:22,687 STRATEGICALLY DIMINISH HIS "ABILITY TO RESIST," AS... AS THE TERM WAS USED. 564 00:15:22,689 --> 00:15:27,058 "ABILITY TO RESIST," AS... AS THE TERM WAS USED. WE KNEW THAT WE'RE GOING DOWN ON 565 00:15:27,060 --> 00:15:28,092 THE TERM WAS USED. WE KNEW THAT WE'RE GOING DOWN ON A PATH THAT'S A DANGEROUS PATH, 566 00:15:28,094 --> 00:15:28,693 WE KNEW THAT WE'RE GOING DOWN ON A PATH THAT'S A DANGEROUS PATH, A PATH THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN ON 567 00:15:28,695 --> 00:15:30,461 A PATH THAT'S A DANGEROUS PATH, A PATH THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN ON BEFORE. 568 00:15:30,463 --> 00:15:31,629 A PATH THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN ON BEFORE. SO WE HAD TO PULL OUT FROM THE 569 00:15:31,631 --> 00:15:34,198 BEFORE. SO WE HAD TO PULL OUT FROM THE INTERROGATION, AND WE HAD TO 570 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:40,605 SO WE HAD TO PULL OUT FROM THE INTERROGATION, AND WE HAD TO START WITNESSING SOMETHING THAT 571 00:15:40,607 --> 00:15:41,673 INTERROGATION, AND WE HAD TO START WITNESSING SOMETHING THAT WAS REALLY SURPRISING, SOME 572 00:15:41,675 --> 00:15:44,242 START WITNESSING SOMETHING THAT WAS REALLY SURPRISING, SOME TECHNIQUE THAT WE NEVER THOUGHT 573 00:15:44,244 --> 00:15:46,911 WAS REALLY SURPRISING, SOME TECHNIQUE THAT WE NEVER THOUGHT THAT WE WILL SEE US DOING. 574 00:15:46,913 --> 00:15:49,347 TECHNIQUE THAT WE NEVER THOUGHT THAT WE WILL SEE US DOING. >> Logan: THE NEW TECHNIQUES ALI 575 00:15:49,349 --> 00:15:51,549 THAT WE WILL SEE US DOING. >> Logan: THE NEW TECHNIQUES ALI SOUFAN IS TALKING ABOUT INCLUDED 576 00:15:51,551 --> 00:15:52,183 >> Logan: THE NEW TECHNIQUES ALI SOUFAN IS TALKING ABOUT INCLUDED NUDITY, SLEEP-DEPRIVATION, AND 577 00:15:52,185 --> 00:15:53,952 SOUFAN IS TALKING ABOUT INCLUDED NUDITY, SLEEP-DEPRIVATION, AND LOUD MUSIC. 578 00:15:53,954 --> 00:15:55,420 NUDITY, SLEEP-DEPRIVATION, AND LOUD MUSIC. IT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE 579 00:15:55,422 --> 00:15:57,188 LOUD MUSIC. IT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE TOUGH AND CONTROVERSIAL METHODS 580 00:15:57,190 --> 00:15:58,823 IT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE TOUGH AND CONTROVERSIAL METHODS THAT WOULD ULTIMATELY INCLUDE 581 00:15:58,825 --> 00:16:00,525 TOUGH AND CONTROVERSIAL METHODS THAT WOULD ULTIMATELY INCLUDE WATER-BOARDING AND BECOME KNOWN 582 00:16:00,527 --> 00:16:01,426 THAT WOULD ULTIMATELY INCLUDE WATER-BOARDING AND BECOME KNOWN AS "ENHANCED INTERROGATION 583 00:16:01,428 --> 00:16:03,594 WATER-BOARDING AND BECOME KNOWN AS "ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES." 584 00:16:03,596 --> 00:16:05,363 AS "ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES." WHAT ALI SOUFAN WITNESSED, AND 585 00:16:05,365 --> 00:16:06,698 TECHNIQUES." WHAT ALI SOUFAN WITNESSED, AND WHAT HE DID ABOUT IT, WHEN WE 586 00:16:06,700 --> 00:16:09,000 WHAT ALI SOUFAN WITNESSED, AND WHAT HE DID ABOUT IT, WHEN WE COME BACK. 587 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,544 >> Logan: THE USE OF WATER- BOARDING AND OTHER TOUGH NEW METHODS KNOWN AS "ENHANCED 588 00:16:19,546 --> 00:16:21,980 BOARDING AND OTHER TOUGH NEW METHODS KNOWN AS "ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES" LED TO 589 00:16:21,982 --> 00:16:24,248 METHODS KNOWN AS "ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES" LED TO A VERY PUBLIC DEBATE ABOUT 590 00:16:24,250 --> 00:16:25,216 INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES" LED TO A VERY PUBLIC DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER THE U.S. WAS TORTURING 591 00:16:25,218 --> 00:16:27,585 A VERY PUBLIC DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER THE U.S. WAS TORTURING TERRORISM SUSPECTS. 592 00:16:27,587 --> 00:16:28,753 WHETHER THE U.S. WAS TORTURING TERRORISM SUSPECTS. THE VIDEOTAPES OF THOSE 593 00:16:28,755 --> 00:16:31,622 TERRORISM SUSPECTS. THE VIDEOTAPES OF THOSE INTERROGATIONS HAVE REPORTEDLY 594 00:16:31,624 --> 00:16:32,690 THE VIDEOTAPES OF THOSE INTERROGATIONS HAVE REPORTEDLY BEEN DESTROYED, AND HARDLY 595 00:16:32,692 --> 00:16:34,192 INTERROGATIONS HAVE REPORTEDLY BEEN DESTROYED, AND HARDLY ANYONE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THEM 596 00:16:34,194 --> 00:16:36,494 BEEN DESTROYED, AND HARDLY ANYONE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THEM HAS SPOKEN PUBLICLY. 597 00:16:36,496 --> 00:16:38,029 ANYONE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THEM HAS SPOKEN PUBLICLY. NOR HAS ENOUGH INFORMATION BEEN 598 00:16:38,031 --> 00:16:42,600 HAS SPOKEN PUBLICLY. NOR HAS ENOUGH INFORMATION BEEN MADE PUBLIC TO DETERMINE IF THE 599 00:16:42,602 --> 00:16:43,234 NOR HAS ENOUGH INFORMATION BEEN MADE PUBLIC TO DETERMINE IF THE TECHNIQUES WERE SUCCESSFUL. 600 00:16:43,236 --> 00:16:44,469 MADE PUBLIC TO DETERMINE IF THE TECHNIQUES WERE SUCCESSFUL. BUT IN APRIL OF 2002, FBI AGENT 601 00:16:44,471 --> 00:16:45,937 TECHNIQUES WERE SUCCESSFUL. BUT IN APRIL OF 2002, FBI AGENT ALI SOUFAN WITNESSED THE 602 00:16:45,939 --> 00:16:48,506 BUT IN APRIL OF 2002, FBI AGENT ALI SOUFAN WITNESSED THE BEGINNING OF THE USE OF THESE 603 00:16:48,508 --> 00:16:49,574 ALI SOUFAN WITNESSED THE BEGINNING OF THE USE OF THESE TECHNIQUES ON THE U.S.'s FIRST 604 00:16:49,576 --> 00:16:51,776 BEGINNING OF THE USE OF THESE TECHNIQUES ON THE U.S.'s FIRST HIGH-VALUE TERRORIST DETAINEE, 605 00:16:51,778 --> 00:16:54,212 TECHNIQUES ON THE U.S.'s FIRST HIGH-VALUE TERRORIST DETAINEE, ABU ZUBAYDAH. 606 00:16:54,214 --> 00:16:55,646 HIGH-VALUE TERRORIST DETAINEE, ABU ZUBAYDAH. SOUFAN SAYS HE WAS MAKING GOOD 607 00:16:55,648 --> 00:16:56,848 ABU ZUBAYDAH. SOUFAN SAYS HE WAS MAKING GOOD PROGRESS WITH ABU ZUBAYDAH 608 00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:58,616 SOUFAN SAYS HE WAS MAKING GOOD PROGRESS WITH ABU ZUBAYDAH THROUGH TRADITIONAL METHODS OF 609 00:16:58,618 --> 00:16:59,017 PROGRESS WITH ABU ZUBAYDAH THROUGH TRADITIONAL METHODS OF QUESTIONING. 610 00:16:59,019 --> 00:17:00,385 THROUGH TRADITIONAL METHODS OF QUESTIONING. BUT HE WAS TOLD THAT A CIA 611 00:17:00,387 --> 00:17:01,853 QUESTIONING. BUT HE WAS TOLD THAT A CIA CONTRACTOR, HIRED FOR HIS 612 00:17:01,855 --> 00:17:05,390 BUT HE WAS TOLD THAT A CIA CONTRACTOR, HIRED FOR HIS INTERROGATION EXPERTISE, WOULD 613 00:17:05,392 --> 00:17:06,491 CONTRACTOR, HIRED FOR HIS INTERROGATION EXPERTISE, WOULD BE TAKING CONTROL. 614 00:17:06,493 --> 00:17:08,860 INTERROGATION EXPERTISE, WOULD BE TAKING CONTROL. SOUFAN THEN WATCHED ON A CLOSED 615 00:17:08,862 --> 00:17:10,628 BE TAKING CONTROL. SOUFAN THEN WATCHED ON A CLOSED CIRCUIT MONITOR AS A VERY 616 00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:14,198 SOUFAN THEN WATCHED ON A CLOSED CIRCUIT MONITOR AS A VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH WAS USED. 617 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:15,466 CIRCUIT MONITOR AS A VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH WAS USED. >> Soufan: THE PLAN AT THE TIME 618 00:17:15,468 --> 00:17:18,102 DIFFERENT APPROACH WAS USED. >> Soufan: THE PLAN AT THE TIME WAS TO GO IN AND TELL ABU 619 00:17:18,104 --> 00:17:21,239 >> Soufan: THE PLAN AT THE TIME WAS TO GO IN AND TELL ABU ZUBAYDAH ONE QUESTION. 620 00:17:21,241 --> 00:17:21,839 WAS TO GO IN AND TELL ABU ZUBAYDAH ONE QUESTION. TELL HIM, "TELL ME WHAT I WANT 621 00:17:21,841 --> 00:17:23,307 ZUBAYDAH ONE QUESTION. TELL HIM, "TELL ME WHAT I WANT TO KNOW." 622 00:17:23,309 --> 00:17:24,542 TELL HIM, "TELL ME WHAT I WANT TO KNOW." AND IF ABU ZUBAYDAH SAID, "WHAT 623 00:17:24,544 --> 00:17:27,412 TO KNOW." AND IF ABU ZUBAYDAH SAID, "WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW?" OR ASK ANY 624 00:17:27,414 --> 00:17:28,312 AND IF ABU ZUBAYDAH SAID, "WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW?" OR ASK ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT, THE PERSON 625 00:17:28,314 --> 00:17:31,082 DO YOU WANT TO KNOW?" OR ASK ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT, THE PERSON IS TO WALK OUT. 626 00:17:31,084 --> 00:17:31,883 QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT, THE PERSON IS TO WALK OUT. AND SAY, "YOU KNOW," AND WALK 627 00:17:31,885 --> 00:17:33,217 IS TO WALK OUT. AND SAY, "YOU KNOW," AND WALK OUT. 628 00:17:33,219 --> 00:17:36,087 AND SAY, "YOU KNOW," AND WALK OUT. AND THEN, THEY HAVE A CONTINUUM 629 00:17:36,089 --> 00:17:37,288 OUT. AND THEN, THEY HAVE A CONTINUUM OF TECHNIQUES LIKE... YOU KNOW, 630 00:17:37,290 --> 00:17:38,990 AND THEN, THEY HAVE A CONTINUUM OF TECHNIQUES LIKE... YOU KNOW, IT STARTED WITH, LIKE, NUDITY. 631 00:17:38,992 --> 00:17:42,727 OF TECHNIQUES LIKE... YOU KNOW, IT STARTED WITH, LIKE, NUDITY. AND THEN, YOU HAVE NOISE AND YOU 632 00:17:42,729 --> 00:17:43,828 IT STARTED WITH, LIKE, NUDITY. AND THEN, YOU HAVE NOISE AND YOU HAVE SLEEP DEPRIVATION. 633 00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:44,462 AND THEN, YOU HAVE NOISE AND YOU HAVE SLEEP DEPRIVATION. AND IT GOES FROM ONE STAGE TO 634 00:17:44,464 --> 00:17:45,596 HAVE SLEEP DEPRIVATION. AND IT GOES FROM ONE STAGE TO ANOTHER, UNTIL HE DECIDES TO 635 00:17:45,598 --> 00:17:46,864 AND IT GOES FROM ONE STAGE TO ANOTHER, UNTIL HE DECIDES TO COOPERATE. 636 00:17:46,866 --> 00:17:47,865 ANOTHER, UNTIL HE DECIDES TO COOPERATE. >> Logan: THIS INDIVIDUAL, WHY 637 00:17:47,867 --> 00:17:49,233 COOPERATE. >> Logan: THIS INDIVIDUAL, WHY WERE THEY PUT IN CHARGE? 638 00:17:49,235 --> 00:17:51,302 >> Logan: THIS INDIVIDUAL, WHY WERE THEY PUT IN CHARGE? >> Soufan: I DON'T KNOW. 639 00:17:51,304 --> 00:17:51,903 WERE THEY PUT IN CHARGE? >> Soufan: I DON'T KNOW. SUPPOSEDLY, HE'S AN EXPERT IN 640 00:17:51,905 --> 00:17:54,305 >> Soufan: I DON'T KNOW. SUPPOSEDLY, HE'S AN EXPERT IN THE FIELD. 641 00:17:54,307 --> 00:17:54,972 SUPPOSEDLY, HE'S AN EXPERT IN THE FIELD. SO I ASK HIM, "DO YOU KNOW 642 00:17:54,974 --> 00:17:55,573 THE FIELD. SO I ASK HIM, "DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ISLAMIC 643 00:17:55,575 --> 00:17:56,908 SO I ASK HIM, "DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM?" 644 00:17:56,910 --> 00:17:58,609 ANYTHING ABOUT ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM?" HE SAID, "NO." 645 00:17:58,611 --> 00:17:59,177 FUNDAMENTALISM?" HE SAID, "NO." "HAVE YOU EVER INTERROGATED 646 00:17:59,179 --> 00:18:01,512 HE SAID, "NO." "HAVE YOU EVER INTERROGATED ANYBODY?" 647 00:18:01,514 --> 00:18:02,313 "HAVE YOU EVER INTERROGATED ANYBODY?" "NO." 648 00:18:02,315 --> 00:18:02,947 ANYBODY?" "NO." HE BASICALLY SAID, NO, HE KNOWS 649 00:18:02,949 --> 00:18:05,249 "NO." HE BASICALLY SAID, NO, HE KNOWS HUMAN NATURE. 650 00:18:05,251 --> 00:18:06,350 HE BASICALLY SAID, NO, HE KNOWS HUMAN NATURE. >> Logan: AND HOW DOES ABU 651 00:18:06,352 --> 00:18:07,785 HUMAN NATURE. >> Logan: AND HOW DOES ABU ZUBAYDAH REACT TO THIS? 652 00:18:07,787 --> 00:18:08,419 >> Logan: AND HOW DOES ABU ZUBAYDAH REACT TO THIS? >> Soufan: HE BASICALLY STOPPED 653 00:18:08,421 --> 00:18:10,488 ZUBAYDAH REACT TO THIS? >> Soufan: HE BASICALLY STOPPED COOPERATING. 654 00:18:10,490 --> 00:18:11,122 >> Soufan: HE BASICALLY STOPPED COOPERATING. >> Logan: THE INFORMATION DRIED 655 00:18:11,124 --> 00:18:11,289 COOPERATING. >> Logan: THE INFORMATION DRIED UP? 656 00:18:11,291 --> 00:18:13,958 >> Logan: THE INFORMATION DRIED UP? >> Soufan: YES, TOTALLY. 657 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,060 UP? >> Soufan: YES, TOTALLY. >> Logan: SOUFAN SAYS THAT, 658 00:18:16,062 --> 00:18:17,061 >> Soufan: YES, TOTALLY. >> Logan: SOUFAN SAYS THAT, AFTER SEVERAL DAYS WITH NOTHING 659 00:18:17,063 --> 00:18:18,663 >> Logan: SOUFAN SAYS THAT, AFTER SEVERAL DAYS WITH NOTHING FROM ABU ZUBAYDAH, HE AND HIS 660 00:18:18,665 --> 00:18:19,897 AFTER SEVERAL DAYS WITH NOTHING FROM ABU ZUBAYDAH, HE AND HIS PARTNER AND A CIA INTERROGATOR 661 00:18:19,899 --> 00:18:21,165 FROM ABU ZUBAYDAH, HE AND HIS PARTNER AND A CIA INTERROGATOR WERE ALLOWED TO START TALKING TO 662 00:18:21,167 --> 00:18:23,601 PARTNER AND A CIA INTERROGATOR WERE ALLOWED TO START TALKING TO HIM ONCE AGAIN. 663 00:18:23,603 --> 00:18:25,837 WERE ALLOWED TO START TALKING TO HIM ONCE AGAIN. AND THEY OBTAINED INFORMATION 664 00:18:25,839 --> 00:18:27,138 HIM ONCE AGAIN. AND THEY OBTAINED INFORMATION THAT LED THE CIA AND THE FBI TO 665 00:18:27,140 --> 00:18:28,706 AND THEY OBTAINED INFORMATION THAT LED THE CIA AND THE FBI TO CAPTURE THIS MAN, JOSE PADILLA, 666 00:18:28,708 --> 00:18:32,710 THAT LED THE CIA AND THE FBI TO CAPTURE THIS MAN, JOSE PADILLA, THE AMERICAN CITIZEN ACCUSED OF 667 00:18:32,712 --> 00:18:33,578 CAPTURE THIS MAN, JOSE PADILLA, THE AMERICAN CITIZEN ACCUSED OF PLOTTING TO SET OFF A "DIRTY 668 00:18:33,580 --> 00:18:35,847 THE AMERICAN CITIZEN ACCUSED OF PLOTTING TO SET OFF A "DIRTY BOMB" IN THE U.S. 669 00:18:35,849 --> 00:18:37,014 PLOTTING TO SET OFF A "DIRTY BOMB" IN THE U.S. SO YOUR FEELING IS, AT THIS 670 00:18:37,016 --> 00:18:39,484 BOMB" IN THE U.S. SO YOUR FEELING IS, AT THIS POINT, THAT YOUR TECHNIQUE 671 00:18:39,486 --> 00:18:40,485 SO YOUR FEELING IS, AT THIS POINT, THAT YOUR TECHNIQUE HAS... HAS STARTED TO WORK 672 00:18:40,487 --> 00:18:41,119 POINT, THAT YOUR TECHNIQUE HAS... HAS STARTED TO WORK AGAIN? 673 00:18:41,121 --> 00:18:41,919 HAS... HAS STARTED TO WORK AGAIN? >> Soufan: WE... WE'RE BACK. 674 00:18:41,921 --> 00:18:43,020 AGAIN? >> Soufan: WE... WE'RE BACK. YEAH, NO, WE'RE BACK. 675 00:18:43,022 --> 00:18:45,456 >> Soufan: WE... WE'RE BACK. YEAH, NO, WE'RE BACK. AND... AND MORE INFORMATION 676 00:18:45,458 --> 00:18:48,392 YEAH, NO, WE'RE BACK. AND... AND MORE INFORMATION STARTS COMING. 677 00:18:48,394 --> 00:18:49,594 AND... AND MORE INFORMATION STARTS COMING. AND THEN, SUDDENLY, OUT OF THE 678 00:18:49,596 --> 00:18:51,762 STARTS COMING. AND THEN, SUDDENLY, OUT OF THE BLUE, THEY SAID, "WAIT A SECOND. 679 00:18:51,764 --> 00:18:56,601 AND THEN, SUDDENLY, OUT OF THE BLUE, THEY SAID, "WAIT A SECOND. YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO BE OUT, 680 00:18:56,603 --> 00:18:58,769 BLUE, THEY SAID, "WAIT A SECOND. YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO BE OUT, BECAUSE WE BELIEVE HE'S NOT 681 00:18:58,771 --> 00:19:00,404 YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO BE OUT, BECAUSE WE BELIEVE HE'S NOT COOPERATING ANYMORE," WHICH WAS 682 00:19:00,406 --> 00:19:02,740 BECAUSE WE BELIEVE HE'S NOT COOPERATING ANYMORE," WHICH WAS REALLY SHOCKING FOR US TO HEAR. 683 00:19:02,742 --> 00:19:03,641 COOPERATING ANYMORE," WHICH WAS REALLY SHOCKING FOR US TO HEAR. >> Logan: SO WHAT DID YOU DO? 684 00:19:03,643 --> 00:19:05,543 REALLY SHOCKING FOR US TO HEAR. >> Logan: SO WHAT DID YOU DO? >> Soufan: WHAT CAN WE DO? 685 00:19:05,545 --> 00:19:07,745 >> Logan: SO WHAT DID YOU DO? >> Soufan: WHAT CAN WE DO? WE'RE WATCHING TIME PASS BY WITH 686 00:19:07,747 --> 00:19:09,180 >> Soufan: WHAT CAN WE DO? WE'RE WATCHING TIME PASS BY WITH NOBODY TALKING TO A DETAINEE, 687 00:19:09,182 --> 00:19:12,049 WE'RE WATCHING TIME PASS BY WITH NOBODY TALKING TO A DETAINEE, DAY AFTER DAY. 688 00:19:12,051 --> 00:19:12,817 NOBODY TALKING TO A DETAINEE, DAY AFTER DAY. >> Logan: NO ONE EVEN SPOKE TO 689 00:19:12,819 --> 00:19:13,784 DAY AFTER DAY. >> Logan: NO ONE EVEN SPOKE TO HIM? 690 00:19:13,786 --> 00:19:14,685 >> Logan: NO ONE EVEN SPOKE TO HIM? >> Soufan: NO, THEY GO IN. 691 00:19:14,687 --> 00:19:15,286 HIM? >> Soufan: NO, THEY GO IN. THEY SAY, "TELL ME WHAT I WANT 692 00:19:15,288 --> 00:19:16,154 >> Soufan: NO, THEY GO IN. THEY SAY, "TELL ME WHAT I WANT TO KNOW." 693 00:19:16,156 --> 00:19:17,455 THEY SAY, "TELL ME WHAT I WANT TO KNOW." HE SAYS, "WHAT DO YOU WANT TO 694 00:19:17,457 --> 00:19:18,689 TO KNOW." HE SAYS, "WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW?" 695 00:19:18,691 --> 00:19:20,825 HE SAYS, "WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW?" AND YOU WALK OUT, PERIOD. 696 00:19:20,827 --> 00:19:21,359 KNOW?" AND YOU WALK OUT, PERIOD. THAT'S IT. 697 00:19:21,361 --> 00:19:22,693 AND YOU WALK OUT, PERIOD. THAT'S IT. THAT'S THE WHOLE INTERROGATION 698 00:19:22,695 --> 00:19:24,795 THAT'S IT. THAT'S THE WHOLE INTERROGATION "PLAN," IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT. 699 00:19:24,797 --> 00:19:25,997 THAT'S THE WHOLE INTERROGATION "PLAN," IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT. >> Logan: SO THERE'S SOMETHING 700 00:19:25,999 --> 00:19:27,431 "PLAN," IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT. >> Logan: SO THERE'S SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS. 701 00:19:27,433 --> 00:19:28,633 >> Logan: SO THERE'S SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS. IT ESCALATES TO A POINT WHERE 702 00:19:28,635 --> 00:19:30,768 THAT HAPPENS. IT ESCALATES TO A POINT WHERE YOU DECIDE, THAT'S IT, YOU'RE 703 00:19:30,770 --> 00:19:31,769 IT ESCALATES TO A POINT WHERE YOU DECIDE, THAT'S IT, YOU'RE LEAVING. 704 00:19:31,771 --> 00:19:32,470 YOU DECIDE, THAT'S IT, YOU'RE LEAVING. WHAT IS IT? 705 00:19:32,472 --> 00:19:33,271 LEAVING. WHAT IS IT? >> Soufan: THERE WAS A 706 00:19:33,273 --> 00:19:34,772 WHAT IS IT? >> Soufan: THERE WAS A CONFINEMENT BOX. 707 00:19:34,774 --> 00:19:35,339 >> Soufan: THERE WAS A CONFINEMENT BOX. >> Logan: THAT SOUNDS LIKE A 708 00:19:35,341 --> 00:19:37,542 CONFINEMENT BOX. >> Logan: THAT SOUNDS LIKE A COFFIN. 709 00:19:37,544 --> 00:19:40,611 >> Logan: THAT SOUNDS LIKE A COFFIN. >> Soufan: UH... "CONFINEMENT 710 00:19:40,613 --> 00:19:41,712 COFFIN. >> Soufan: UH... "CONFINEMENT BOX," AND I CAME ONE DAY, AND I 711 00:19:41,714 --> 00:19:44,415 >> Soufan: UH... "CONFINEMENT BOX," AND I CAME ONE DAY, AND I SAW IT IN THE FACILITY. 712 00:19:44,417 --> 00:19:45,583 BOX," AND I CAME ONE DAY, AND I SAW IT IN THE FACILITY. AND I THOUGHT, AT THE TIME, "WE 713 00:19:45,585 --> 00:19:47,318 SAW IT IN THE FACILITY. AND I THOUGHT, AT THE TIME, "WE HAD THE GUY COOPERATING. 714 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:48,586 AND I THOUGHT, AT THE TIME, "WE HAD THE GUY COOPERATING. SO WHAT'S GOING ON?" 715 00:19:48,588 --> 00:19:49,487 HAD THE GUY COOPERATING. SO WHAT'S GOING ON?" I MEAN, THAT BOX WAS NOT MADE 716 00:19:49,489 --> 00:19:50,821 SO WHAT'S GOING ON?" I MEAN, THAT BOX WAS NOT MADE OVERNIGHT. 717 00:19:50,823 --> 00:19:52,490 I MEAN, THAT BOX WAS NOT MADE OVERNIGHT. THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON AND 718 00:19:52,492 --> 00:19:53,958 OVERNIGHT. THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON AND WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT. 719 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,092 THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON AND WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT. >> Logan: WHAT WAS THE BOX FOR? 720 00:19:55,094 --> 00:19:58,229 WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT. >> Logan: WHAT WAS THE BOX FOR? >> Soufan: I DON'T KNOW. 721 00:19:58,231 --> 00:19:59,463 >> Logan: WHAT WAS THE BOX FOR? >> Soufan: I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, DEFINITELY, IT'S... IT'S 722 00:19:59,465 --> 00:20:01,766 >> Soufan: I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, DEFINITELY, IT'S... IT'S FOR... FOR ABU ZUBAYDAH. 723 00:20:01,768 --> 00:20:03,467 I MEAN, DEFINITELY, IT'S... IT'S FOR... FOR ABU ZUBAYDAH. >> Logan: BUT THAT WAS NOT THE 724 00:20:03,469 --> 00:20:05,236 FOR... FOR ABU ZUBAYDAH. >> Logan: BUT THAT WAS NOT THE KIND OF TECHNIQUE THAT YOU WERE 725 00:20:05,238 --> 00:20:06,671 >> Logan: BUT THAT WAS NOT THE KIND OF TECHNIQUE THAT YOU WERE PREPARED TO STICK AROUND FOR? 726 00:20:06,673 --> 00:20:08,606 KIND OF TECHNIQUE THAT YOU WERE PREPARED TO STICK AROUND FOR? >> Soufan: NO. 727 00:20:08,608 --> 00:20:09,640 PREPARED TO STICK AROUND FOR? >> Soufan: NO. I JUST FELT THAT, LITERALLY, 728 00:20:09,642 --> 00:20:12,910 >> Soufan: NO. I JUST FELT THAT, LITERALLY, "WE'RE PLAYING GAMES, AND I 729 00:20:12,912 --> 00:20:14,645 I JUST FELT THAT, LITERALLY, "WE'RE PLAYING GAMES, AND I REALLY CANNOT BE PART OF THIS." 730 00:20:14,647 --> 00:20:15,279 "WE'RE PLAYING GAMES, AND I REALLY CANNOT BE PART OF THIS." >> Logan: SOUFAN CLAIMS HE 731 00:20:15,281 --> 00:20:15,913 REALLY CANNOT BE PART OF THIS." >> Logan: SOUFAN CLAIMS HE WASN'T THE ONLY PERSON THAT FELT 732 00:20:15,915 --> 00:20:18,616 >> Logan: SOUFAN CLAIMS HE WASN'T THE ONLY PERSON THAT FELT THAT WAY. 733 00:20:18,618 --> 00:20:20,384 WASN'T THE ONLY PERSON THAT FELT THAT WAY. >> Soufan: AT LEAST ONE OF THE 734 00:20:20,386 --> 00:20:21,485 THAT WAY. >> Soufan: AT LEAST ONE OF THE CIA GUYS SAID, "YOU KNOW WHAT? 735 00:20:21,487 --> 00:20:22,119 >> Soufan: AT LEAST ONE OF THE CIA GUYS SAID, "YOU KNOW WHAT? THAT'S NOT WORTH IT. 736 00:20:22,121 --> 00:20:23,087 CIA GUYS SAID, "YOU KNOW WHAT? THAT'S NOT WORTH IT. I'M NOT GOING TO DO THIS." 737 00:20:23,089 --> 00:20:23,888 THAT'S NOT WORTH IT. I'M NOT GOING TO DO THIS." HE LEFT. 738 00:20:23,890 --> 00:20:26,324 I'M NOT GOING TO DO THIS." HE LEFT. HE LEFT THE LOCATION... 739 00:20:26,326 --> 00:20:27,158 HE LEFT. HE LEFT THE LOCATION... >> Logan: ANOTHER CIA AGENT ON 740 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:27,758 HE LEFT THE LOCATION... >> Logan: ANOTHER CIA AGENT ON THE GROUND? 741 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:28,392 >> Logan: ANOTHER CIA AGENT ON THE GROUND? >> Soufan: YEAH. 742 00:20:28,394 --> 00:20:30,962 THE GROUND? >> Soufan: YEAH. ACTUALLY, HE LEFT BEFORE ME. 743 00:20:30,964 --> 00:20:32,496 >> Soufan: YEAH. ACTUALLY, HE LEFT BEFORE ME. AND THEN... AND THEN WE FINALLY 744 00:20:32,498 --> 00:20:34,498 ACTUALLY, HE LEFT BEFORE ME. AND THEN... AND THEN WE FINALLY REPORTED TO HEADQUARTERS THAT, 745 00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:35,833 AND THEN... AND THEN WE FINALLY REPORTED TO HEADQUARTERS THAT, YOU KNOW, "THIS IS WHAT'S 746 00:20:35,835 --> 00:20:38,703 REPORTED TO HEADQUARTERS THAT, YOU KNOW, "THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENING," AS I CALLED IT IN 747 00:20:38,705 --> 00:20:40,705 YOU KNOW, "THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENING," AS I CALLED IT IN THE D.O.J.-- DEPARTMENT OF 748 00:20:40,707 --> 00:20:42,273 HAPPENING," AS I CALLED IT IN THE D.O.J.-- DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE INSPECTOR GENERAL-- 749 00:20:42,275 --> 00:20:44,408 THE D.O.J.-- DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE INSPECTOR GENERAL-- REPORT, "BORDERLINE TORTURE." 750 00:20:44,410 --> 00:20:45,610 JUSTICE INSPECTOR GENERAL-- REPORT, "BORDERLINE TORTURE." AND-- FBI HEADQUARTERS SAID, 751 00:20:45,612 --> 00:20:47,044 REPORT, "BORDERLINE TORTURE." AND-- FBI HEADQUARTERS SAID, "YOU KNOW... YOU KNOW WE DON'T 752 00:20:47,046 --> 00:20:49,580 AND-- FBI HEADQUARTERS SAID, "YOU KNOW... YOU KNOW WE DON'T DO THAT, JUST..." 753 00:20:49,582 --> 00:20:51,549 "YOU KNOW... YOU KNOW WE DON'T DO THAT, JUST..." AND, EVENTUALLY, AFTER THAT, 754 00:20:51,551 --> 00:20:53,084 DO THAT, JUST..." AND, EVENTUALLY, AFTER THAT, THEY PULLED ALL FBI AGENTS FROM 755 00:20:53,086 --> 00:20:56,220 AND, EVENTUALLY, AFTER THAT, THEY PULLED ALL FBI AGENTS FROM HIGH-VALUE DETAINEES 756 00:20:56,222 --> 00:20:57,855 THEY PULLED ALL FBI AGENTS FROM HIGH-VALUE DETAINEES INTERROGATIONS. 757 00:20:57,857 --> 00:20:59,090 HIGH-VALUE DETAINEES INTERROGATIONS. >> Logan: SOUFAN NEVER SAW ABU 758 00:20:59,092 --> 00:21:01,092 INTERROGATIONS. >> Logan: SOUFAN NEVER SAW ABU ZUBAYDAH AGAIN, AND ONLY 759 00:21:01,094 --> 00:21:01,859 >> Logan: SOUFAN NEVER SAW ABU ZUBAYDAH AGAIN, AND ONLY OCCASIONALLY SAW THESE 760 00:21:01,861 --> 00:21:03,861 ZUBAYDAH AGAIN, AND ONLY OCCASIONALLY SAW THESE TECHNIQUES BEING USED AFTER 761 00:21:03,863 --> 00:21:05,062 OCCASIONALLY SAW THESE TECHNIQUES BEING USED AFTER THAT, BUT HE CLAIMS THAT WHEN 762 00:21:05,064 --> 00:21:09,433 TECHNIQUES BEING USED AFTER THAT, BUT HE CLAIMS THAT WHEN PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH ADDRESSED 763 00:21:09,435 --> 00:21:10,868 THAT, BUT HE CLAIMS THAT WHEN PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH ADDRESSED THE NATION IN 2006, THE AMERICAN 764 00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:12,703 PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH ADDRESSED THE NATION IN 2006, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WERE BEING MISLED. 765 00:21:12,705 --> 00:21:13,437 THE NATION IN 2006, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WERE BEING MISLED. >> President George Bush: WE 766 00:21:13,439 --> 00:21:14,772 PEOPLE WERE BEING MISLED. >> President George Bush: WE KNEW THAT ZUBAYDAH HAD MORE 767 00:21:14,774 --> 00:21:16,574 >> President George Bush: WE KNEW THAT ZUBAYDAH HAD MORE INFORMATION THAT COULD SAVE 768 00:21:16,576 --> 00:21:18,843 KNEW THAT ZUBAYDAH HAD MORE INFORMATION THAT COULD SAVE INNOCENT LIVES, BUT HE STOPPED 769 00:21:18,845 --> 00:21:20,011 INFORMATION THAT COULD SAVE INNOCENT LIVES, BUT HE STOPPED TALKING. 770 00:21:20,013 --> 00:21:21,345 INNOCENT LIVES, BUT HE STOPPED TALKING. IT BECAME CLEAR THAT HE HAD 771 00:21:21,347 --> 00:21:23,314 TALKING. IT BECAME CLEAR THAT HE HAD RECEIVED TRAINING ON HOW TO 772 00:21:23,316 --> 00:21:28,119 IT BECAME CLEAR THAT HE HAD RECEIVED TRAINING ON HOW TO RESIST INTERROGATION. 773 00:21:28,121 --> 00:21:28,719 RECEIVED TRAINING ON HOW TO RESIST INTERROGATION. AND SO THE CIA USED AN 774 00:21:28,721 --> 00:21:29,787 RESIST INTERROGATION. AND SO THE CIA USED AN ALTERNATIVE SET OF PROCEDURES. 775 00:21:29,789 --> 00:21:31,289 AND SO THE CIA USED AN ALTERNATIVE SET OF PROCEDURES. >> Soufan: I THINK SOMEBODY TOLD 776 00:21:31,291 --> 00:21:34,358 ALTERNATIVE SET OF PROCEDURES. >> Soufan: I THINK SOMEBODY TOLD THE PRESIDENT SOME FAKE 777 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:34,925 >> Soufan: I THINK SOMEBODY TOLD THE PRESIDENT SOME FAKE INFORMATION, SOME FALSE 778 00:21:34,927 --> 00:21:37,995 THE PRESIDENT SOME FAKE INFORMATION, SOME FALSE INFORMATION. 779 00:21:37,997 --> 00:21:38,596 INFORMATION, SOME FALSE INFORMATION. ZUBAYDAH DID NOT STOP TALKING; 780 00:21:38,598 --> 00:21:39,864 INFORMATION. ZUBAYDAH DID NOT STOP TALKING; INTRODUCING THE TECHNIQUES MADE 781 00:21:39,866 --> 00:21:42,133 ZUBAYDAH DID NOT STOP TALKING; INTRODUCING THE TECHNIQUES MADE HIM STOP TALKING. 782 00:21:42,135 --> 00:21:43,034 INTRODUCING THE TECHNIQUES MADE HIM STOP TALKING. >> Logan: SOUFAN ARGUES THAT 783 00:21:43,036 --> 00:21:44,769 HIM STOP TALKING. >> Logan: SOUFAN ARGUES THAT TERRORISTS LIKE ABU ZUBAYDAH 784 00:21:44,771 --> 00:21:45,770 >> Logan: SOUFAN ARGUES THAT TERRORISTS LIKE ABU ZUBAYDAH HAVE BEEN TRAINED TO EXPECT 785 00:21:45,772 --> 00:21:47,638 TERRORISTS LIKE ABU ZUBAYDAH HAVE BEEN TRAINED TO EXPECT EXTREMELY BRUTAL TREATMENT IN 786 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,974 HAVE BEEN TRAINED TO EXPECT EXTREMELY BRUTAL TREATMENT IN MIDDLE EASTERN PRISONS, WHICH IS 787 00:21:49,976 --> 00:21:51,042 EXTREMELY BRUTAL TREATMENT IN MIDDLE EASTERN PRISONS, WHICH IS ONE REASON HE BELIEVES ENHANCED 788 00:21:51,044 --> 00:21:52,310 MIDDLE EASTERN PRISONS, WHICH IS ONE REASON HE BELIEVES ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES ARE NOT 789 00:21:52,312 --> 00:21:55,479 ONE REASON HE BELIEVES ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES ARE NOT EFFECTIVE. 790 00:21:55,481 --> 00:21:56,514 INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES ARE NOT EFFECTIVE. >> Soufan: IF YOU LOOK AT THEM 791 00:21:56,516 --> 00:21:57,748 EFFECTIVE. >> Soufan: IF YOU LOOK AT THEM FROM AN AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE, 792 00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:58,282 >> Soufan: IF YOU LOOK AT THEM FROM AN AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE, YOU WILL SAY, "WOW, THAT'S 793 00:21:58,284 --> 00:21:59,650 FROM AN AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE, YOU WILL SAY, "WOW, THAT'S TORTURE." 794 00:21:59,652 --> 00:22:01,552 YOU WILL SAY, "WOW, THAT'S TORTURE." BUT REALLY, THAT'S LIKE SAYING 795 00:22:01,554 --> 00:22:02,253 TORTURE." BUT REALLY, THAT'S LIKE SAYING HELLO IN SOME JAIL IN THE MIDDLE 796 00:22:02,255 --> 00:22:05,022 BUT REALLY, THAT'S LIKE SAYING HELLO IN SOME JAIL IN THE MIDDLE EAST. 797 00:22:05,024 --> 00:22:05,690 HELLO IN SOME JAIL IN THE MIDDLE EAST. I MEAN, THE... LITERALLY, THIS 798 00:22:05,692 --> 00:22:06,290 EAST. I MEAN, THE... LITERALLY, THIS IS NOT THE TORTURE THAT THESE 799 00:22:06,292 --> 00:22:09,427 I MEAN, THE... LITERALLY, THIS IS NOT THE TORTURE THAT THESE GUYS ARE EXPECTING. 800 00:22:09,429 --> 00:22:11,329 IS NOT THE TORTURE THAT THESE GUYS ARE EXPECTING. SO WHY DO WE START GOING ON A 801 00:22:11,331 --> 00:22:14,231 GUYS ARE EXPECTING. SO WHY DO WE START GOING ON A PATH THAT EVENTUALLY WE'RE GOING 802 00:22:14,233 --> 00:22:16,567 SO WHY DO WE START GOING ON A PATH THAT EVENTUALLY WE'RE GOING TO HIT A GLASS CEILING? 803 00:22:16,569 --> 00:22:17,301 PATH THAT EVENTUALLY WE'RE GOING TO HIT A GLASS CEILING? AND WHEN YOU HIT THE GLASS 804 00:22:17,303 --> 00:22:18,969 TO HIT A GLASS CEILING? AND WHEN YOU HIT THE GLASS CEILING, WHAT DO YOU DO? 805 00:22:18,971 --> 00:22:20,438 AND WHEN YOU HIT THE GLASS CEILING, WHAT DO YOU DO? >> Logan: WHAT DO YOU DO? 806 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,038 CEILING, WHAT DO YOU DO? >> Logan: WHAT DO YOU DO? >> Soufan: THE DETAINEE CALLS 807 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,173 >> Logan: WHAT DO YOU DO? >> Soufan: THE DETAINEE CALLS YOUR BLUFF. 808 00:22:22,175 --> 00:22:23,240 >> Soufan: THE DETAINEE CALLS YOUR BLUFF. YOU CANNOT GO BACK AND SAY, "I'M 809 00:22:23,242 --> 00:22:25,376 YOUR BLUFF. YOU CANNOT GO BACK AND SAY, "I'M GOING TO BUILD A RAPPORT." 810 00:22:25,378 --> 00:22:26,577 YOU CANNOT GO BACK AND SAY, "I'M GOING TO BUILD A RAPPORT." THAT'S WHY YOU KEEP REPEATING 811 00:22:26,579 --> 00:22:28,079 GOING TO BUILD A RAPPORT." THAT'S WHY YOU KEEP REPEATING THE GLASS CEILING AGAIN AND 812 00:22:28,081 --> 00:22:31,649 THAT'S WHY YOU KEEP REPEATING THE GLASS CEILING AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. 813 00:22:31,651 --> 00:22:33,684 THE GLASS CEILING AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. ABU ZUBAYDAH WAS WATER-BOARDED 814 00:22:33,686 --> 00:22:36,454 AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. ABU ZUBAYDAH WAS WATER-BOARDED 83 TIMES; KHALID SHEIKH 815 00:22:36,456 --> 00:22:38,222 ABU ZUBAYDAH WAS WATER-BOARDED 83 TIMES; KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, 183 TIMES. 816 00:22:38,224 --> 00:22:39,724 83 TIMES; KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, 183 TIMES. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? 817 00:22:39,726 --> 00:22:40,358 MOHAMMED, 183 TIMES. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? DOES THAT TELL YOU THE TECHNIQUE 818 00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,126 WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? DOES THAT TELL YOU THE TECHNIQUE IS WORKING? 819 00:22:42,128 --> 00:22:43,260 DOES THAT TELL YOU THE TECHNIQUE IS WORKING? >> Logan: A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN 820 00:22:43,262 --> 00:22:44,362 IS WORKING? >> Logan: A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE CIA AND THE INTELLIGENCE 821 00:22:44,364 --> 00:22:46,097 >> Logan: A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE CIA AND THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY TOLD US THAT ABU 822 00:22:46,099 --> 00:22:49,266 THE CIA AND THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY TOLD US THAT ABU ZUBAYDAH DID GIVE UP INFORMATION 823 00:22:49,268 --> 00:22:50,634 COMMUNITY TOLD US THAT ABU ZUBAYDAH DID GIVE UP INFORMATION AFTER HE WAS WATER-BOARDED, 824 00:22:50,636 --> 00:22:52,203 ZUBAYDAH DID GIVE UP INFORMATION AFTER HE WAS WATER-BOARDED, WHICH THEY SAY HELPED SAVE 825 00:22:52,205 --> 00:22:54,138 AFTER HE WAS WATER-BOARDED, WHICH THEY SAY HELPED SAVE AMERICAN LIVES, AND THAT, ALL 826 00:22:54,140 --> 00:22:55,206 WHICH THEY SAY HELPED SAVE AMERICAN LIVES, AND THAT, ALL MORAL QUESTIONS ASIDE, THE 827 00:22:55,208 --> 00:22:56,173 AMERICAN LIVES, AND THAT, ALL MORAL QUESTIONS ASIDE, THE ENHANCED INTERROGATION PROGRAM 828 00:22:56,175 --> 00:22:57,375 MORAL QUESTIONS ASIDE, THE ENHANCED INTERROGATION PROGRAM YIELDED SIGNIFICANT 829 00:22:57,377 --> 00:23:00,077 ENHANCED INTERROGATION PROGRAM YIELDED SIGNIFICANT INTELLIGENCE, INCLUDING 830 00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:02,580 YIELDED SIGNIFICANT INTELLIGENCE, INCLUDING INFORMATION THAT CONTRIBUTED TO 831 00:23:02,582 --> 00:23:06,083 INTELLIGENCE, INCLUDING INFORMATION THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE KILLING OF OSAMA BIN LADEN. 832 00:23:06,085 --> 00:23:07,785 INFORMATION THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE KILLING OF OSAMA BIN LADEN. AT LEAST TWO FORMER DIRECTORS OF 833 00:23:07,787 --> 00:23:09,353 THE KILLING OF OSAMA BIN LADEN. AT LEAST TWO FORMER DIRECTORS OF THE CIA, GEORGE TENET AND 834 00:23:09,355 --> 00:23:11,722 AT LEAST TWO FORMER DIRECTORS OF THE CIA, GEORGE TENET AND MICHAEL HAYDEN, SAY THAT 835 00:23:11,724 --> 00:23:13,090 THE CIA, GEORGE TENET AND MICHAEL HAYDEN, SAY THAT ENHANCED INTERROGATION 836 00:23:13,092 --> 00:23:14,325 MICHAEL HAYDEN, SAY THAT ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES DO WORK. 837 00:23:14,327 --> 00:23:15,459 ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES DO WORK. >> Soufan: SURE, SURE. 838 00:23:15,461 --> 00:23:16,327 TECHNIQUES DO WORK. >> Soufan: SURE, SURE. >> Logan: THEY HAVE ACCESS TO 839 00:23:16,329 --> 00:23:18,129 >> Soufan: SURE, SURE. >> Logan: THEY HAVE ACCESS TO MORE INTELLIGENCE THAN YOU. 840 00:23:18,131 --> 00:23:19,296 >> Logan: THEY HAVE ACCESS TO MORE INTELLIGENCE THAN YOU. >> Soufan: ABSOLUTELY. 841 00:23:19,298 --> 00:23:20,197 MORE INTELLIGENCE THAN YOU. >> Soufan: ABSOLUTELY. >> Logan: IF YOU DON'T KNOW 842 00:23:20,199 --> 00:23:21,232 >> Soufan: ABSOLUTELY. >> Logan: IF YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING, HOW CAN YOU BE SO 843 00:23:21,234 --> 00:23:22,800 >> Logan: IF YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING, HOW CAN YOU BE SO SURE THAT THEY DON'T WORK? 844 00:23:22,802 --> 00:23:24,034 EVERYTHING, HOW CAN YOU BE SO SURE THAT THEY DON'T WORK? >> Soufan: BECAUSE I AM PRIVY TO 845 00:23:24,036 --> 00:23:25,536 SURE THAT THEY DON'T WORK? >> Soufan: BECAUSE I AM PRIVY TO A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT ALSO 846 00:23:25,538 --> 00:23:27,004 >> Soufan: BECAUSE I AM PRIVY TO A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT ALSO I'M NOT TELLING YOU HERE. 847 00:23:27,006 --> 00:23:27,805 A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT ALSO I'M NOT TELLING YOU HERE. >> Logan: BUT IS IT POSSIBLE FOR 848 00:23:27,807 --> 00:23:30,040 I'M NOT TELLING YOU HERE. >> Logan: BUT IS IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO KNOW ALL THE INFORMATION, 849 00:23:30,042 --> 00:23:32,009 >> Logan: BUT IS IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO KNOW ALL THE INFORMATION, EVERYTHING THAT MAY OR MAY NOT 850 00:23:32,011 --> 00:23:32,743 YOU TO KNOW ALL THE INFORMATION, EVERYTHING THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN GAINED FROM THESE 851 00:23:32,745 --> 00:23:34,979 EVERYTHING THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN GAINED FROM THESE TECHNIQUES? 852 00:23:34,981 --> 00:23:35,613 HAVE BEEN GAINED FROM THESE TECHNIQUES? >> Soufan: I'M NOT CLAIMING THAT 853 00:23:35,615 --> 00:23:37,047 TECHNIQUES? >> Soufan: I'M NOT CLAIMING THAT I KNOW EVERYTHING. 854 00:23:37,049 --> 00:23:38,682 >> Soufan: I'M NOT CLAIMING THAT I KNOW EVERYTHING. I KNOW WHAT I KNOW. 855 00:23:38,684 --> 00:23:40,084 I KNOW EVERYTHING. I KNOW WHAT I KNOW. >> Logan: THE ONE THING THAT HAS 856 00:23:40,086 --> 00:23:42,553 I KNOW WHAT I KNOW. >> Logan: THE ONE THING THAT HAS CAUSED ALI SOUFAN MORE ANGUISH 857 00:23:42,555 --> 00:23:45,289 >> Logan: THE ONE THING THAT HAS CAUSED ALI SOUFAN MORE ANGUISH THAN ANYTHING ELSE IS THE 858 00:23:45,291 --> 00:23:46,690 CAUSED ALI SOUFAN MORE ANGUISH THAN ANYTHING ELSE IS THE THOUGHT THAT THE EVENTS OF 9/11 859 00:23:46,692 --> 00:23:47,324 THAN ANYTHING ELSE IS THE THOUGHT THAT THE EVENTS OF 9/11 MIGHT HAVE BEEN PREVENTED-- IF, 860 00:23:47,326 --> 00:23:50,628 THOUGHT THAT THE EVENTS OF 9/11 MIGHT HAVE BEEN PREVENTED-- IF, HE SAYS, THE CIA HAD SHARED 861 00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:52,663 MIGHT HAVE BEEN PREVENTED-- IF, HE SAYS, THE CIA HAD SHARED CERTAIN INFORMATION WITH HIM AND 862 00:23:52,665 --> 00:23:54,231 HE SAYS, THE CIA HAD SHARED CERTAIN INFORMATION WITH HIM AND HIS FBI TEAM. 863 00:23:54,233 --> 00:23:56,200 CERTAIN INFORMATION WITH HIM AND HIS FBI TEAM. WHILE THEY WERE INVESTIGATING 864 00:23:56,202 --> 00:23:59,770 HIS FBI TEAM. WHILE THEY WERE INVESTIGATING THE ATTACK ON THE U.S.S. "COLE" 865 00:23:59,772 --> 00:24:03,207 WHILE THEY WERE INVESTIGATING THE ATTACK ON THE U.S.S. "COLE" IN NOVEMBER 2000, SOUFAN'S TEAM 866 00:24:03,209 --> 00:24:04,642 THE ATTACK ON THE U.S.S. "COLE" IN NOVEMBER 2000, SOUFAN'S TEAM LEARNED THAT THIS AL QAEDA 867 00:24:04,644 --> 00:24:05,376 IN NOVEMBER 2000, SOUFAN'S TEAM LEARNED THAT THIS AL QAEDA OPERATIVE HAD MET WITH OTHER 868 00:24:05,378 --> 00:24:06,010 LEARNED THAT THIS AL QAEDA OPERATIVE HAD MET WITH OTHER TERRORISTS IN ASIA AND RECEIVED 869 00:24:06,012 --> 00:24:06,677 OPERATIVE HAD MET WITH OTHER TERRORISTS IN ASIA AND RECEIVED A LARGE SUM OF MONEY. 870 00:24:06,679 --> 00:24:09,246 TERRORISTS IN ASIA AND RECEIVED A LARGE SUM OF MONEY. SOUFAN SAYS HE ASKED THE CIA IF 871 00:24:09,248 --> 00:24:11,315 A LARGE SUM OF MONEY. SOUFAN SAYS HE ASKED THE CIA IF IT KNEW WHAT THIS OPERATIVE WAS 872 00:24:11,317 --> 00:24:14,518 SOUFAN SAYS HE ASKED THE CIA IF IT KNEW WHAT THIS OPERATIVE WAS UP TO. 873 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:15,486 IT KNEW WHAT THIS OPERATIVE WAS UP TO. YOU MADE THREE FORMAL REQUESTS 874 00:24:15,488 --> 00:24:17,121 UP TO. YOU MADE THREE FORMAL REQUESTS TO THE CIA... 875 00:24:17,123 --> 00:24:24,795 YOU MADE THREE FORMAL REQUESTS TO THE CIA... >> Soufan: THERE WAS THREE 876 00:24:24,797 --> 00:24:27,598 TO THE CIA... >> Soufan: THERE WAS THREE FORMAL REQUESTS. 877 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:28,165 >> Soufan: THERE WAS THREE FORMAL REQUESTS. >> Logan: ...THROUGH THE FBI 878 00:24:28,167 --> 00:24:28,566 FORMAL REQUESTS. >> Logan: ...THROUGH THE FBI CHAIN? 879 00:24:28,568 --> 00:24:29,033 >> Logan: ...THROUGH THE FBI CHAIN? >> Soufan: RIGHT. 880 00:24:29,035 --> 00:24:29,800 CHAIN? >> Soufan: RIGHT. >> Logan: AND TIME AND AGAIN, 881 00:24:29,802 --> 00:24:30,401 >> Soufan: RIGHT. >> Logan: AND TIME AND AGAIN, THE CIA TELL YOU WHAT? 882 00:24:30,403 --> 00:24:30,968 >> Logan: AND TIME AND AGAIN, THE CIA TELL YOU WHAT? >> Soufan: THEY DON'T KNOW 883 00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:31,435 THE CIA TELL YOU WHAT? >> Soufan: THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. 884 00:24:31,437 --> 00:24:32,136 >> Soufan: THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. >> Logan: BUT SOUFAN SAYS HE 885 00:24:32,138 --> 00:24:32,736 ANYTHING. >> Logan: BUT SOUFAN SAYS HE LATER LEARNED THE CIA KNEW, 886 00:24:32,738 --> 00:24:33,704 >> Logan: BUT SOUFAN SAYS HE LATER LEARNED THE CIA KNEW, EIGHT MONTHS BEFORE 9/11, THAT 887 00:24:33,706 --> 00:24:34,305 LATER LEARNED THE CIA KNEW, EIGHT MONTHS BEFORE 9/11, THAT THIS SAME OPERATIVE HAD MET IN 888 00:24:34,307 --> 00:24:35,306 EIGHT MONTHS BEFORE 9/11, THAT THIS SAME OPERATIVE HAD MET IN MALAYSIA WITH TWO TERRORISM 889 00:24:35,308 --> 00:24:35,940 THIS SAME OPERATIVE HAD MET IN MALAYSIA WITH TWO TERRORISM SUSPECTS WHO WOULD LATER HIJACK 890 00:24:35,942 --> 00:24:36,574 MALAYSIA WITH TWO TERRORISM SUSPECTS WHO WOULD LATER HIJACK THE PLANE THAT CRASHED INTO THE 891 00:24:36,576 --> 00:24:36,874 SUSPECTS WHO WOULD LATER HIJACK THE PLANE THAT CRASHED INTO THE PENTAGON. 892 00:24:36,876 --> 00:24:37,842 THE PLANE THAT CRASHED INTO THE PENTAGON. AND THE CIA ALSO KNEW THAT THOSE 893 00:24:37,844 --> 00:24:38,876 PENTAGON. AND THE CIA ALSO KNEW THAT THOSE TWO SUSPECTS WERE HEADING TO THE 894 00:24:38,878 --> 00:24:42,346 AND THE CIA ALSO KNEW THAT THOSE TWO SUSPECTS WERE HEADING TO THE U.S. 895 00:24:42,348 --> 00:24:43,414 TWO SUSPECTS WERE HEADING TO THE U.S. >> Soufan: THE AGENCY KNEW THAT 896 00:24:43,416 --> 00:24:45,182 U.S. >> Soufan: THE AGENCY KNEW THAT THESE AL QAEDA OPERATIVES IN 897 00:24:45,184 --> 00:24:46,183 >> Soufan: THE AGENCY KNEW THAT THESE AL QAEDA OPERATIVES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA FLEW TO AMERICA, 898 00:24:46,185 --> 00:24:47,017 THESE AL QAEDA OPERATIVES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA FLEW TO AMERICA, OR THEY HAVE VISAS TO COME TO 899 00:24:47,019 --> 00:24:48,752 SOUTHEAST ASIA FLEW TO AMERICA, OR THEY HAVE VISAS TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES, AND SOMEBODY 900 00:24:48,754 --> 00:24:49,620 OR THEY HAVE VISAS TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES, AND SOMEBODY DECIDED, "LET'S NOT SHARE THE 901 00:24:49,622 --> 00:24:51,322 THE UNITED STATES, AND SOMEBODY DECIDED, "LET'S NOT SHARE THE INFORMATION." 902 00:24:51,324 --> 00:24:52,356 DECIDED, "LET'S NOT SHARE THE INFORMATION." >> Logan: AND IF IT HAD BEEN 903 00:24:52,358 --> 00:24:54,792 INFORMATION." >> Logan: AND IF IT HAD BEEN SHARED WITH YOU, WHAT THEN? 904 00:24:54,794 --> 00:24:56,227 >> Logan: AND IF IT HAD BEEN SHARED WITH YOU, WHAT THEN? >> Soufan: I TRY NOT TO THINK 905 00:24:56,229 --> 00:24:57,628 SHARED WITH YOU, WHAT THEN? >> Soufan: I TRY NOT TO THINK ABOUT THAT. 906 00:24:57,630 --> 00:24:58,863 >> Soufan: I TRY NOT TO THINK ABOUT THAT. I TRY NOT TO THINK ABOUT... 907 00:24:58,865 --> 00:25:01,665 ABOUT THAT. I TRY NOT TO THINK ABOUT... ABOUT WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED. 908 00:25:01,667 --> 00:25:05,769 I TRY NOT TO THINK ABOUT... ABOUT WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED. MAYBE... MAYBE THOUSANDS OF 909 00:25:05,771 --> 00:25:08,272 ABOUT WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED. MAYBE... MAYBE THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN LIVES WILL BE SPARED, 910 00:25:08,274 --> 00:25:10,541 MAYBE... MAYBE THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN LIVES WILL BE SPARED, MAYBE. 911 00:25:10,543 --> 00:25:11,909 AMERICAN LIVES WILL BE SPARED, MAYBE. >> Logan: THE CIA TOLD US ANY 912 00:25:11,911 --> 00:25:14,078 MAYBE. >> Logan: THE CIA TOLD US ANY SUGGESTION IT PURPOSELY REFUSED 913 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,780 >> Logan: THE CIA TOLD US ANY SUGGESTION IT PURPOSELY REFUSED TO SHARE CRITICAL INFORMATION ON 914 00:25:16,782 --> 00:25:18,616 SUGGESTION IT PURPOSELY REFUSED TO SHARE CRITICAL INFORMATION ON THE 9/11 PLOTS WITH THE FBI IS 915 00:25:18,618 --> 00:25:21,118 TO SHARE CRITICAL INFORMATION ON THE 9/11 PLOTS WITH THE FBI IS "BASELESS" AND "THESE 916 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:22,686 THE 9/11 PLOTS WITH THE FBI IS "BASELESS" AND "THESE ALLEGATIONS DIMINISH THE HARD 917 00:25:22,688 --> 00:25:23,687 "BASELESS" AND "THESE ALLEGATIONS DIMINISH THE HARD WORK AND DEDICATION OF COUNTLESS 918 00:25:23,689 --> 00:25:26,590 ALLEGATIONS DIMINISH THE HARD WORK AND DEDICATION OF COUNTLESS CIA OFFICERS." 919 00:25:26,592 --> 00:25:28,125 WORK AND DEDICATION OF COUNTLESS CIA OFFICERS." ALI SOUFAN LEFT THE FBI SIX 920 00:25:28,127 --> 00:25:29,827 CIA OFFICERS." ALI SOUFAN LEFT THE FBI SIX YEARS AGO AND, TODAY, HE RUNS A 921 00:25:29,829 --> 00:25:31,195 ALI SOUFAN LEFT THE FBI SIX YEARS AGO AND, TODAY, HE RUNS A SECURITY CONSULTING COMPANY 922 00:25:31,197 --> 00:25:37,601 YEARS AGO AND, TODAY, HE RUNS A SECURITY CONSULTING COMPANY BASED IN NEW YORK. 923 00:25:37,603 --> 00:25:38,202 SECURITY CONSULTING COMPANY BASED IN NEW YORK. HE TOLD US HE HASN'T BEEN TO 924 00:25:38,204 --> 00:25:39,103 BASED IN NEW YORK. HE TOLD US HE HASN'T BEEN TO GROUND ZERO SINCE THE FIRST 925 00:25:39,105 --> 00:25:40,738 HE TOLD US HE HASN'T BEEN TO GROUND ZERO SINCE THE FIRST ANNIVERSARY OF 9/11, AND THERE'S 926 00:25:40,740 --> 00:25:41,939 GROUND ZERO SINCE THE FIRST ANNIVERSARY OF 9/11, AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT. 927 00:25:41,941 --> 00:25:42,773 ANNIVERSARY OF 9/11, AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT. >> Soufan: MAYBE I'M ONE OF 928 00:25:42,775 --> 00:25:43,440 A REASON FOR THAT. >> Soufan: MAYBE I'M ONE OF THESE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T GET OVER 929 00:25:43,442 --> 00:25:44,942 >> Soufan: MAYBE I'M ONE OF THESE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T GET OVER IT. 930 00:25:44,944 --> 00:25:47,878 THESE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T GET OVER IT. >> Logan: CAN YOU TELL ME WHY? 931 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,380 IT. >> Logan: CAN YOU TELL ME WHY? >> Soufan: YOU KNOW, MAYBE PART 932 00:25:49,382 --> 00:25:50,080 >> Logan: CAN YOU TELL ME WHY? >> Soufan: YOU KNOW, MAYBE PART OF ME FEELS GUILTY. 933 00:25:50,082 --> 00:25:53,284 >> Soufan: YOU KNOW, MAYBE PART OF ME FEELS GUILTY. MAYBE PART OF ME FEELS SOME SORT 934 00:25:53,286 --> 00:25:55,386 OF ME FEELS GUILTY. MAYBE PART OF ME FEELS SOME SORT OF RESPONSIBILITY OF WHAT 935 00:25:55,388 --> 00:25:57,154 MAYBE PART OF ME FEELS SOME SORT OF RESPONSIBILITY OF WHAT HAPPENED. 936 00:25:57,156 --> 00:25:57,855 OF RESPONSIBILITY OF WHAT HAPPENED. >> Logan: BUT YOU DID YOUR BEST. 937 00:25:57,857 --> 00:25:58,756 HAPPENED. >> Logan: BUT YOU DID YOUR BEST. YOU GAVE YOUR ALL. 938 00:25:58,758 --> 00:26:00,591 >> Logan: BUT YOU DID YOUR BEST. YOU GAVE YOUR ALL. WHY WOULD YOU FEEL GUILTY? 939 00:26:00,593 --> 00:26:02,359 YOU GAVE YOUR ALL. WHY WOULD YOU FEEL GUILTY? >> Soufan: IF YOU WANT TO BE 940 00:26:02,361 --> 00:26:03,661 WHY WOULD YOU FEEL GUILTY? >> Soufan: IF YOU WANT TO BE TRUTHFUL WITH YOURSELF, VERY 941 00:26:03,663 --> 00:26:05,396 >> Soufan: IF YOU WANT TO BE TRUTHFUL WITH YOURSELF, VERY DIFFICULT WHAT YOU FEEL... AND 942 00:26:05,398 --> 00:26:06,530 TRUTHFUL WITH YOURSELF, VERY DIFFICULT WHAT YOU FEEL... AND NOT TO KIND OF LIKE FEEL THAT, 943 00:26:06,532 --> 00:26:07,665 DIFFICULT WHAT YOU FEEL... AND NOT TO KIND OF LIKE FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, "MAYBE I COULD'VE DONE 944 00:26:07,667 --> 00:26:13,103 NOT TO KIND OF LIKE FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, "MAYBE I COULD'VE DONE SOMETHING." 945 00:26:13,105 --> 00:26:14,305 YOU KNOW, "MAYBE I COULD'VE DONE SOMETHING." >> Logan: IS THAT WHY IT'S HARD 946 00:26:14,307 --> 00:26:15,573 SOMETHING." >> Logan: IS THAT WHY IT'S HARD FOR YOU TO GO TO GROUND ZERO? 947 00:26:15,575 --> 00:26:18,709 >> Logan: IS THAT WHY IT'S HARD FOR YOU TO GO TO GROUND ZERO? >> Soufan: YEAH. 948 00:26:18,711 --> 00:26:20,010 FOR YOU TO GO TO GROUND ZERO? >> Soufan: YEAH. ACTUALLY, I WENT THERE ONCE, ON 949 00:26:20,012 --> 00:26:20,611 >> Soufan: YEAH. ACTUALLY, I WENT THERE ONCE, ON THE... THE FIRST ANNIVERSARY, 950 00:26:20,613 --> 00:26:21,111 ACTUALLY, I WENT THERE ONCE, ON THE... THE FIRST ANNIVERSARY, BUT THAT'S IT. 951 00:26:21,113 --> 00:26:21,946 THE... THE FIRST ANNIVERSARY, BUT THAT'S IT. >> Logan: IT'S HARD FOR ANYONE 952 00:26:21,948 --> 00:26:23,280 BUT THAT'S IT. >> Logan: IT'S HARD FOR ANYONE TO GO THERE, BUT... BUT... 953 00:26:23,282 --> 00:26:23,847 >> Logan: IT'S HARD FOR ANYONE TO GO THERE, BUT... BUT... >> Soufan: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 954 00:26:23,849 --> 00:26:24,448 TO GO THERE, BUT... BUT... >> Soufan: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. >> Logan: WHY SO HARD FOR YOU, 955 00:26:24,450 --> 00:26:25,082 >> Soufan: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. >> Logan: WHY SO HARD FOR YOU, ALI? 956 00:26:25,084 --> 00:26:31,155 >> Logan: WHY SO HARD FOR YOU, ALI? >> Soufan: I DON'T KNOW. 957 00:26:31,157 --> 00:26:35,225 ALI? >> Soufan: I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW. 958 00:26:43,501 --> 00:26:50,207 >> Pelley: ON 9/11, DR. BENJAMIN LUFT PREPARED STONY BROOK UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER ON 959 00:26:50,209 --> 00:26:51,275 LUFT PREPARED STONY BROOK UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER ON LONG ISLAND FOR THE MASSIVE 960 00:26:51,277 --> 00:26:52,610 UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER ON LONG ISLAND FOR THE MASSIVE NUMBER OF CASUALTIES HE EXPECTED 961 00:26:52,612 --> 00:26:54,945 LONG ISLAND FOR THE MASSIVE NUMBER OF CASUALTIES HE EXPECTED TO OVERWHELM THE EMERGENCY ROOM. 962 00:26:54,947 --> 00:26:56,780 NUMBER OF CASUALTIES HE EXPECTED TO OVERWHELM THE EMERGENCY ROOM. BUT NONE CAME THROUGH THE DOOR 963 00:26:56,782 --> 00:26:59,917 TO OVERWHELM THE EMERGENCY ROOM. BUT NONE CAME THROUGH THE DOOR THAT DAY, SO FEW HAD SURVIVED. 964 00:26:59,919 --> 00:27:01,185 BUT NONE CAME THROUGH THE DOOR THAT DAY, SO FEW HAD SURVIVED. AS IT TURNED OUT, DR. LUFT'S 965 00:27:01,187 --> 00:27:02,686 THAT DAY, SO FEW HAD SURVIVED. AS IT TURNED OUT, DR. LUFT'S CASUALTIES WERE COMING, BUT THEY 966 00:27:02,688 --> 00:27:06,023 AS IT TURNED OUT, DR. LUFT'S CASUALTIES WERE COMING, BUT THEY WOULD ARRIVE MUCH LATER. 967 00:27:06,025 --> 00:27:09,393 CASUALTIES WERE COMING, BUT THEY WOULD ARRIVE MUCH LATER. ALTHOUGH NEARLY 3,000 PEOPLE 968 00:27:09,395 --> 00:27:10,561 WOULD ARRIVE MUCH LATER. ALTHOUGH NEARLY 3,000 PEOPLE WERE KILLED AT THE WORLD TRADE 969 00:27:10,563 --> 00:27:12,229 ALTHOUGH NEARLY 3,000 PEOPLE WERE KILLED AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, 70,000 OTHERS RESPONDED 970 00:27:12,231 --> 00:27:13,330 WERE KILLED AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, 70,000 OTHERS RESPONDED TO GROUND ZERO AND WORKED FOR 971 00:27:13,332 --> 00:27:14,398 CENTER, 70,000 OTHERS RESPONDED TO GROUND ZERO AND WORKED FOR MONTHS AMID TOXIC SMOKE AND 972 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,267 TO GROUND ZERO AND WORKED FOR MONTHS AMID TOXIC SMOKE AND DUST. 973 00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:18,936 MONTHS AMID TOXIC SMOKE AND DUST. DR. LUFT HELPED START A CLINIC 974 00:27:18,938 --> 00:27:19,737 DUST. DR. LUFT HELPED START A CLINIC TO TREAT THE CHRONIC ILLNESSES 975 00:27:19,739 --> 00:27:21,438 DR. LUFT HELPED START A CLINIC TO TREAT THE CHRONIC ILLNESSES AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA 976 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,141 TO TREAT THE CHRONIC ILLNESSES AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA SUFFERED BY THE 9/11 RESPONDERS. 977 00:27:24,143 --> 00:27:26,844 AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA SUFFERED BY THE 9/11 RESPONDERS. OVER TIME, LUFT DISCOVERED 978 00:27:26,846 --> 00:27:28,545 SUFFERED BY THE 9/11 RESPONDERS. OVER TIME, LUFT DISCOVERED SOMETHING THAT HE NEVER 979 00:27:28,547 --> 00:27:31,682 OVER TIME, LUFT DISCOVERED SOMETHING THAT HE NEVER EXPECTED-- HE BEGAN TO HEAR 980 00:27:31,684 --> 00:27:32,983 SOMETHING THAT HE NEVER EXPECTED-- HE BEGAN TO HEAR THEIR STORIES; HONEST, RAW, 981 00:27:32,985 --> 00:27:34,284 EXPECTED-- HE BEGAN TO HEAR THEIR STORIES; HONEST, RAW, IRREPLACEABLE STORIES. 982 00:27:34,286 --> 00:27:35,619 THEIR STORIES; HONEST, RAW, IRREPLACEABLE STORIES. AND ALMOST TWO YEARS AGO, HE 983 00:27:35,621 --> 00:27:37,087 IRREPLACEABLE STORIES. AND ALMOST TWO YEARS AGO, HE BEGAN TO RECORD THE DEFINITIVE 984 00:27:37,089 --> 00:27:42,860 AND ALMOST TWO YEARS AGO, HE BEGAN TO RECORD THE DEFINITIVE HISTORY OF GROUND ZERO, 985 00:27:42,862 --> 00:27:43,761 BEGAN TO RECORD THE DEFINITIVE HISTORY OF GROUND ZERO, REMEMBERING 9/11 IN THE WORDS OF 986 00:27:43,763 --> 00:27:45,763 HISTORY OF GROUND ZERO, REMEMBERING 9/11 IN THE WORDS OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IT. 987 00:27:45,765 --> 00:27:46,997 REMEMBERING 9/11 IN THE WORDS OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IT. >> Dr. Benjamin Luft: THE 988 00:27:46,999 --> 00:27:48,065 THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IT. >> Dr. Benjamin Luft: THE PROBLEM THAT CAME UP WAS THAT 989 00:27:48,067 --> 00:27:49,266 >> Dr. Benjamin Luft: THE PROBLEM THAT CAME UP WAS THAT OUR SOCIETY BEGAN TO LOOK AT THE 990 00:27:49,268 --> 00:27:49,867 PROBLEM THAT CAME UP WAS THAT OUR SOCIETY BEGAN TO LOOK AT THE RESPONDERS IN TERMS OF THEIR 991 00:27:49,869 --> 00:27:51,969 OUR SOCIETY BEGAN TO LOOK AT THE RESPONDERS IN TERMS OF THEIR DISEASE. 992 00:27:51,971 --> 00:27:54,004 RESPONDERS IN TERMS OF THEIR DISEASE. THEY BECAME AN ISSUE IN TERMS OF 993 00:27:54,006 --> 00:27:55,572 DISEASE. THEY BECAME AN ISSUE IN TERMS OF THEIR LIABILITY. 994 00:27:55,574 --> 00:27:58,442 THEY BECAME AN ISSUE IN TERMS OF THEIR LIABILITY. AND MY FEELING WAS THAT THAT'S 995 00:27:58,444 --> 00:27:59,610 THEIR LIABILITY. AND MY FEELING WAS THAT THAT'S NOT WHO THE RESPONDERS WERE. 996 00:27:59,612 --> 00:28:01,578 AND MY FEELING WAS THAT THAT'S NOT WHO THE RESPONDERS WERE. LET'S FIND OUT WHO THEY ARE AS 997 00:28:01,580 --> 00:28:03,447 NOT WHO THE RESPONDERS WERE. LET'S FIND OUT WHO THEY ARE AS HUMAN BEINGS-- WHAT THEIR 998 00:28:03,449 --> 00:28:07,084 LET'S FIND OUT WHO THEY ARE AS HUMAN BEINGS-- WHAT THEIR MOTIVATION WAS, WHAT VALUES THEY 999 00:28:07,086 --> 00:28:08,752 HUMAN BEINGS-- WHAT THEIR MOTIVATION WAS, WHAT VALUES THEY HAD, WHAT SACRIFICES THEY MADE, 1000 00:28:08,754 --> 00:28:09,953 MOTIVATION WAS, WHAT VALUES THEY HAD, WHAT SACRIFICES THEY MADE, HOW THEY WERE ABLE TO RENEW 1001 00:28:09,955 --> 00:28:11,488 HAD, WHAT SACRIFICES THEY MADE, HOW THEY WERE ABLE TO RENEW THEMSELVES. 1002 00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:12,389 HOW THEY WERE ABLE TO RENEW THEMSELVES. IT WAS ALMOST TAKE... LIKE 1003 00:28:12,391 --> 00:28:13,791 THEMSELVES. IT WAS ALMOST TAKE... LIKE TAKING A CIVICS CLASS AS TO WHAT 1004 00:28:13,793 --> 00:28:16,093 IT WAS ALMOST TAKE... LIKE TAKING A CIVICS CLASS AS TO WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A 1005 00:28:16,095 --> 00:28:17,795 TAKING A CIVICS CLASS AS TO WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A CITIZEN. 1006 00:28:17,797 --> 00:28:19,063 IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A CITIZEN. WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A 1007 00:28:19,065 --> 00:28:20,030 CITIZEN. WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A HUMAN BEING? 1008 00:28:20,032 --> 00:28:21,165 WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT BEING A HUMAN BEING? WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO BEING AN 1009 00:28:21,167 --> 00:28:23,033 HUMAN BEING? WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO BEING AN AMERICAN? 1010 00:28:23,035 --> 00:28:24,435 WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO BEING AN AMERICAN? >> Stacey Goodman: I WORKED AT 1011 00:28:24,437 --> 00:28:27,004 AMERICAN? >> Stacey Goodman: I WORKED AT THE MAKESHIFT MORGUE. 1012 00:28:27,006 --> 00:28:30,674 >> Stacey Goodman: I WORKED AT THE MAKESHIFT MORGUE. WE TOOK IN ALL THE BODIES, YOU 1013 00:28:30,676 --> 00:28:36,046 THE MAKESHIFT MORGUE. WE TOOK IN ALL THE BODIES, YOU KNOW? 1014 00:28:36,048 --> 00:28:38,515 WE TOOK IN ALL THE BODIES, YOU KNOW? SAYING, "I'M SORRY FOR YOUR 1015 00:28:38,517 --> 00:28:40,584 KNOW? SAYING, "I'M SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS" WAS VERY DIFFICULT, 1016 00:28:40,586 --> 00:28:42,853 SAYING, "I'M SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS" WAS VERY DIFFICULT, BECAUSE THAT ALMOST GOT TO BE 1017 00:28:42,855 --> 00:28:44,588 LOSS" WAS VERY DIFFICULT, BECAUSE THAT ALMOST GOT TO BE LIKE ROTE, YOU KNOW? 1018 00:28:44,590 --> 00:28:46,590 BECAUSE THAT ALMOST GOT TO BE LIKE ROTE, YOU KNOW? >> Pelley: STACEY GOODMAN, A 1019 00:28:46,592 --> 00:28:48,459 LIKE ROTE, YOU KNOW? >> Pelley: STACEY GOODMAN, A POLICE DETECTIVE, IS ONE OF THE 1020 00:28:48,461 --> 00:28:50,561 >> Pelley: STACEY GOODMAN, A POLICE DETECTIVE, IS ONE OF THE VOICES DR. LUFT RECORDED IN WHAT 1021 00:28:50,563 --> 00:28:51,228 POLICE DETECTIVE, IS ONE OF THE VOICES DR. LUFT RECORDED IN WHAT IS NOW CALLED THE WORLD TRADE 1022 00:28:51,230 --> 00:28:56,734 VOICES DR. LUFT RECORDED IN WHAT IS NOW CALLED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ORAL HISTORY PROJECT. 1023 00:28:56,736 --> 00:28:57,334 IS NOW CALLED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ORAL HISTORY PROJECT. >> Goodman: AT ONE POINT, THIS 1024 00:28:57,336 --> 00:28:58,035 CENTER ORAL HISTORY PROJECT. >> Goodman: AT ONE POINT, THIS SENIOR... I THINK HE WAS A 1025 00:28:58,037 --> 00:29:00,704 >> Goodman: AT ONE POINT, THIS SENIOR... I THINK HE WAS A RETIRED FIREMAN, HE COMES IN. 1026 00:29:00,706 --> 00:29:02,239 SENIOR... I THINK HE WAS A RETIRED FIREMAN, HE COMES IN. HIS HANDS ARE CUPPED. 1027 00:29:02,241 --> 00:29:06,110 RETIRED FIREMAN, HE COMES IN. HIS HANDS ARE CUPPED. AND HE'S GOT BONES IN HIS HANDS. 1028 00:29:06,112 --> 00:29:06,710 HIS HANDS ARE CUPPED. AND HE'S GOT BONES IN HIS HANDS. AND HE GOES UP TO THE MEDICAL 1029 00:29:06,712 --> 00:29:09,046 AND HE'S GOT BONES IN HIS HANDS. AND HE GOES UP TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER AND HE PUTS THE BONES 1030 00:29:09,048 --> 00:29:09,680 AND HE GOES UP TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER AND HE PUTS THE BONES IN FRONT OF HIM AND HE GOES, 1031 00:29:09,682 --> 00:29:16,453 EXAMINER AND HE PUTS THE BONES IN FRONT OF HIM AND HE GOES, "THIS IS MY SON." 1032 00:29:16,455 --> 00:29:17,588 IN FRONT OF HIM AND HE GOES, "THIS IS MY SON." WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT? 1033 00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:23,060 "THIS IS MY SON." WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT? ( SNIFFS ) 1034 00:29:23,062 --> 00:29:24,595 WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT? ( SNIFFS ) >> Pelley: NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY 1035 00:29:24,597 --> 00:29:26,196 ( SNIFFS ) >> Pelley: NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY KNOW 9/11 THE WAY THESE PEOPLE 1036 00:29:26,198 --> 00:29:27,231 >> Pelley: NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY KNOW 9/11 THE WAY THESE PEOPLE DO. 1037 00:29:27,233 --> 00:29:28,999 KNOW 9/11 THE WAY THESE PEOPLE DO. WE ASKED SEVERAL OF THE 1038 00:29:29,001 --> 00:29:29,867 DO. WE ASKED SEVERAL OF THE RESPONDERS TO GIVE US A SENSE OF 1039 00:29:29,869 --> 00:29:32,202 WE ASKED SEVERAL OF THE RESPONDERS TO GIVE US A SENSE OF THE HOURS OF TESTIMONY THAT 1040 00:29:32,204 --> 00:29:33,370 RESPONDERS TO GIVE US A SENSE OF THE HOURS OF TESTIMONY THAT THEY'VE PUT INTO DR. LUFT'S 1041 00:29:33,372 --> 00:29:34,271 THE HOURS OF TESTIMONY THAT THEY'VE PUT INTO DR. LUFT'S PROJECT. 1042 00:29:34,273 --> 00:29:35,672 THEY'VE PUT INTO DR. LUFT'S PROJECT. >> Carol Paukner: THE DEBRIS AND 1043 00:29:35,674 --> 00:29:38,408 PROJECT. >> Carol Paukner: THE DEBRIS AND THE PEOPLE RUSHING OUT AT US, I 1044 00:29:38,410 --> 00:29:39,243 >> Carol Paukner: THE DEBRIS AND THE PEOPLE RUSHING OUT AT US, I COULDN'T EVEN MAKE IT TO TOWER 1045 00:29:39,245 --> 00:29:40,711 THE PEOPLE RUSHING OUT AT US, I COULDN'T EVEN MAKE IT TO TOWER ONE. 1046 00:29:40,713 --> 00:29:41,645 COULDN'T EVEN MAKE IT TO TOWER ONE. I MADE IT TO THE BASE OF TOWER 1047 00:29:41,647 --> 00:29:43,013 ONE. I MADE IT TO THE BASE OF TOWER TWO. 1048 00:29:43,015 --> 00:29:44,481 I MADE IT TO THE BASE OF TOWER TWO. >> Pelley: CAROL PAUKNER WAS A 1049 00:29:44,483 --> 00:29:45,382 TWO. >> Pelley: CAROL PAUKNER WAS A COP, ON THE SCENE BEFORE THE 1050 00:29:45,384 --> 00:29:47,885 >> Pelley: CAROL PAUKNER WAS A COP, ON THE SCENE BEFORE THE TOWERS FELL. 1051 00:29:47,887 --> 00:29:51,688 COP, ON THE SCENE BEFORE THE TOWERS FELL. >> Paukner: THIS BIG, BRAWLY FBI 1052 00:29:51,690 --> 00:29:52,356 TOWERS FELL. >> Paukner: THIS BIG, BRAWLY FBI GUY HAD HIS SHIELD AROUND HIS 1053 00:29:52,358 --> 00:29:54,057 >> Paukner: THIS BIG, BRAWLY FBI GUY HAD HIS SHIELD AROUND HIS NECK. 1054 00:29:54,059 --> 00:29:55,025 GUY HAD HIS SHIELD AROUND HIS NECK. AND, YOU KNOW, I LOOKED UP AT 1055 00:29:55,027 --> 00:29:56,126 NECK. AND, YOU KNOW, I LOOKED UP AT HIM AND HE'S TELLING... THERE 1056 00:29:56,128 --> 00:29:58,295 AND, YOU KNOW, I LOOKED UP AT HIM AND HE'S TELLING... THERE WAS ABOUT SIX OFFICERS THERE 1057 00:29:58,297 --> 00:30:01,865 HIM AND HE'S TELLING... THERE WAS ABOUT SIX OFFICERS THERE WITH ME, AND HE'S LIKE, "IF YOU 1058 00:30:01,867 --> 00:30:02,466 WAS ABOUT SIX OFFICERS THERE WITH ME, AND HE'S LIKE, "IF YOU WANT TO LIVE, YOU... YOU MIGHT 1059 00:30:02,468 --> 00:30:03,967 WITH ME, AND HE'S LIKE, "IF YOU WANT TO LIVE, YOU... YOU MIGHT AS WELL LEAVE NOW." 1060 00:30:03,969 --> 00:30:05,302 WANT TO LIVE, YOU... YOU MIGHT AS WELL LEAVE NOW." HE SAID, "WE'RE ALL GOING TO 1061 00:30:05,304 --> 00:30:07,070 AS WELL LEAVE NOW." HE SAID, "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE." 1062 00:30:07,072 --> 00:30:07,738 HE SAID, "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE." AND I'M LIKE, "I CAN'T... WE 1063 00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:08,739 DIE." AND I'M LIKE, "I CAN'T... WE CAN'T LEAVE. 1064 00:30:08,741 --> 00:30:10,574 AND I'M LIKE, "I CAN'T... WE CAN'T LEAVE. I'M... I'M NOT LEAVING." 1065 00:30:10,576 --> 00:30:11,775 CAN'T LEAVE. I'M... I'M NOT LEAVING." AND THE OFFICERS THAT I WERE 1066 00:30:11,777 --> 00:30:13,443 I'M... I'M NOT LEAVING." AND THE OFFICERS THAT I WERE THERE WITH, "WE'RE NOT LEAVING, 1067 00:30:13,445 --> 00:30:14,111 AND THE OFFICERS THAT I WERE THERE WITH, "WE'RE NOT LEAVING, EITHER." 1068 00:30:14,113 --> 00:30:16,180 THERE WITH, "WE'RE NOT LEAVING, EITHER." AND WE CONTINUED TO EVACUATE AND 1069 00:30:16,182 --> 00:30:18,715 EITHER." AND WE CONTINUED TO EVACUATE AND DO OUR JOBS BUT, YOU KNOW, WE 1070 00:30:18,717 --> 00:30:19,416 AND WE CONTINUED TO EVACUATE AND DO OUR JOBS BUT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE ALL LIKE, "WOW, WE'RE GOING 1071 00:30:19,418 --> 00:30:21,285 DO OUR JOBS BUT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE ALL LIKE, "WOW, WE'RE GOING TO DIE," YOU KNOW? 1072 00:30:21,287 --> 00:30:22,953 WERE ALL LIKE, "WOW, WE'RE GOING TO DIE," YOU KNOW? >> Pelley: PAUKNER WAS TRAPPED 1073 00:30:22,955 --> 00:30:25,355 TO DIE," YOU KNOW? >> Pelley: PAUKNER WAS TRAPPED WHEN THE FIRST TOWER COLLAPSED. 1074 00:30:25,357 --> 00:30:26,323 >> Pelley: PAUKNER WAS TRAPPED WHEN THE FIRST TOWER COLLAPSED. THAT'S HER, ON THE LEFT, AFTER 1075 00:30:26,325 --> 00:30:27,257 WHEN THE FIRST TOWER COLLAPSED. THAT'S HER, ON THE LEFT, AFTER SHE PULLED HERSELF OUT OF THE 1076 00:30:27,259 --> 00:30:30,661 THAT'S HER, ON THE LEFT, AFTER SHE PULLED HERSELF OUT OF THE WRECKAGE. 1077 00:30:30,663 --> 00:30:31,495 SHE PULLED HERSELF OUT OF THE WRECKAGE. SHE'S WITH A FELLOW COP AND A 1078 00:30:31,497 --> 00:30:32,162 WRECKAGE. SHE'S WITH A FELLOW COP AND A WOMAN THAT THEY RESCUED. 1079 00:30:32,164 --> 00:30:33,096 SHE'S WITH A FELLOW COP AND A WOMAN THAT THEY RESCUED. >> Richard Doerler: I WAS ONE OF 1080 00:30:33,098 --> 00:30:34,498 WOMAN THAT THEY RESCUED. >> Richard Doerler: I WAS ONE OF THE GUYS WHO WAS ABLE TO PULL 1081 00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:35,933 >> Richard Doerler: I WAS ONE OF THE GUYS WHO WAS ABLE TO PULL SOMEONE OUT ALIVE. 1082 00:30:35,935 --> 00:30:36,967 THE GUYS WHO WAS ABLE TO PULL SOMEONE OUT ALIVE. >> Pelley: SO FEW WERE SAVED, 1083 00:30:36,969 --> 00:30:38,035 SOMEONE OUT ALIVE. >> Pelley: SO FEW WERE SAVED, BUT POLICE SERGEANT RICHARD 1084 00:30:38,037 --> 00:30:40,270 >> Pelley: SO FEW WERE SAVED, BUT POLICE SERGEANT RICHARD DOERLER HELPED PULL OUT ONE RARE 1085 00:30:40,272 --> 00:30:42,272 BUT POLICE SERGEANT RICHARD DOERLER HELPED PULL OUT ONE RARE SURVIVOR, A FELLOW COP NAMED 1086 00:30:42,274 --> 00:30:42,806 DOERLER HELPED PULL OUT ONE RARE SURVIVOR, A FELLOW COP NAMED JOHN McLOUGHLIN. 1087 00:30:42,808 --> 00:30:44,408 SURVIVOR, A FELLOW COP NAMED JOHN McLOUGHLIN. >> Doerler: THEY WERE GIVING... 1088 00:30:44,410 --> 00:30:47,277 JOHN McLOUGHLIN. >> Doerler: THEY WERE GIVING... JOHN WAS... GIVING JOHN 1089 00:30:47,279 --> 00:30:49,046 >> Doerler: THEY WERE GIVING... JOHN WAS... GIVING JOHN McLOUGHLIN MORPHINE BECAUSE 1090 00:30:49,048 --> 00:30:51,849 JOHN WAS... GIVING JOHN McLOUGHLIN MORPHINE BECAUSE THE... THE PLAN WAS THAT, IF WE 1091 00:30:51,851 --> 00:30:52,416 McLOUGHLIN MORPHINE BECAUSE THE... THE PLAN WAS THAT, IF WE COULDN'T EXTRICATE HIM, THEY 1092 00:30:52,418 --> 00:30:55,619 THE... THE PLAN WAS THAT, IF WE COULDN'T EXTRICATE HIM, THEY WERE GOING TO CUT HIS LEGS OFF. 1093 00:30:55,621 --> 00:30:57,187 COULDN'T EXTRICATE HIM, THEY WERE GOING TO CUT HIS LEGS OFF. JOHN SCREAMED IN PAIN WHILE WE 1094 00:30:57,189 --> 00:30:59,656 WERE GOING TO CUT HIS LEGS OFF. JOHN SCREAMED IN PAIN WHILE WE PULLED HIM, INITIALLY, SO WE LET 1095 00:30:59,658 --> 00:31:03,794 JOHN SCREAMED IN PAIN WHILE WE PULLED HIM, INITIALLY, SO WE LET HIM REST. 1096 00:31:03,796 --> 00:31:04,428 PULLED HIM, INITIALLY, SO WE LET HIM REST. AND WE SIMULTANEOUSLY PULLED 1097 00:31:04,430 --> 00:31:05,529 HIM REST. AND WE SIMULTANEOUSLY PULLED AGAIN AND WE BROKE HIM FREE AND 1098 00:31:05,531 --> 00:31:14,504 AND WE SIMULTANEOUSLY PULLED AGAIN AND WE BROKE HIM FREE AND PULLED HIM OUT. 1099 00:31:14,506 --> 00:31:16,473 AGAIN AND WE BROKE HIM FREE AND PULLED HIM OUT. >> Luft: WANT YOU TAKE SOME NICE 1100 00:31:16,475 --> 00:31:17,975 PULLED HIM OUT. >> Luft: WANT YOU TAKE SOME NICE DEEP BREATHS. 1101 00:31:17,977 --> 00:31:19,576 >> Luft: WANT YOU TAKE SOME NICE DEEP BREATHS. >> Pelley: BENJAMIN LUFT IS A 1102 00:31:19,578 --> 00:31:21,578 DEEP BREATHS. >> Pelley: BENJAMIN LUFT IS A MEDICAL DOCTOR WHO VOLUNTEERED 1103 00:31:21,580 --> 00:31:22,880 >> Pelley: BENJAMIN LUFT IS A MEDICAL DOCTOR WHO VOLUNTEERED TO HELP CREATE A CLINIC FOR THE 1104 00:31:22,882 --> 00:31:26,350 MEDICAL DOCTOR WHO VOLUNTEERED TO HELP CREATE A CLINIC FOR THE 9/11 RESPONDERS AT STONY BROOK 1105 00:31:26,352 --> 00:31:27,150 TO HELP CREATE A CLINIC FOR THE 9/11 RESPONDERS AT STONY BROOK UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER, PART 1106 00:31:27,152 --> 00:31:27,751 9/11 RESPONDERS AT STONY BROOK UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER, PART OF THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW 1107 00:31:27,753 --> 00:31:29,253 UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER, PART OF THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK. 1108 00:31:29,255 --> 00:31:30,821 OF THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK. MORE THAN 6,000 RESPONDERS 1109 00:31:30,823 --> 00:31:32,322 YORK. MORE THAN 6,000 RESPONDERS ENROLLED IN HIS WORLD TRADE 1110 00:31:32,324 --> 00:31:35,425 MORE THAN 6,000 RESPONDERS ENROLLED IN HIS WORLD TRADE CENTER HEALTH PROGRAM. 1111 00:31:35,427 --> 00:31:36,593 ENROLLED IN HIS WORLD TRADE CENTER HEALTH PROGRAM. ONE STUDY SHOWS THAT NEARLY A 1112 00:31:36,595 --> 00:31:38,195 CENTER HEALTH PROGRAM. ONE STUDY SHOWS THAT NEARLY A THIRD OF THOSE WHO WORKED AT 1113 00:31:38,197 --> 00:31:41,598 ONE STUDY SHOWS THAT NEARLY A THIRD OF THOSE WHO WORKED AT GROUND ZERO HAVE ASTHMA, 42% 1114 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:42,866 THIRD OF THOSE WHO WORKED AT GROUND ZERO HAVE ASTHMA, 42% SUFFER WITH SINUSITIS, NEARLY 1115 00:31:42,868 --> 00:31:48,272 GROUND ZERO HAVE ASTHMA, 42% SUFFER WITH SINUSITIS, NEARLY 40% HAVE GASTRO-ESOPHAGEAL 1116 00:31:48,274 --> 00:31:50,407 SUFFER WITH SINUSITIS, NEARLY 40% HAVE GASTRO-ESOPHAGEAL REFLUX DISEASE, KNOWN AS "GERD"; 1117 00:31:50,409 --> 00:31:51,208 40% HAVE GASTRO-ESOPHAGEAL REFLUX DISEASE, KNOWN AS "GERD"; AND MANY HAVE REACTIVE AIRWAYS 1118 00:31:51,210 --> 00:31:52,676 REFLUX DISEASE, KNOWN AS "GERD"; AND MANY HAVE REACTIVE AIRWAYS DYSFUNCTION SYNDROME THAT THE 1119 00:31:52,678 --> 00:31:55,379 AND MANY HAVE REACTIVE AIRWAYS DYSFUNCTION SYNDROME THAT THE PATIENTS JUST CALL "RADS." 1120 00:31:55,381 --> 00:31:57,147 DYSFUNCTION SYNDROME THAT THE PATIENTS JUST CALL "RADS." >> Luft: WHEN YOU'RE A PHYSICIAN 1121 00:31:57,149 --> 00:31:58,782 PATIENTS JUST CALL "RADS." >> Luft: WHEN YOU'RE A PHYSICIAN AND YOU SEE PATIENTS, YOU TEND 1122 00:31:58,784 --> 00:32:00,784 >> Luft: WHEN YOU'RE A PHYSICIAN AND YOU SEE PATIENTS, YOU TEND TO REDUCE THEM TO THEIR SYMPTOMS 1123 00:32:00,786 --> 00:32:02,119 AND YOU SEE PATIENTS, YOU TEND TO REDUCE THEM TO THEIR SYMPTOMS AND SIGNS, TO THEIR MEDICAL 1124 00:32:02,121 --> 00:32:03,353 TO REDUCE THEM TO THEIR SYMPTOMS AND SIGNS, TO THEIR MEDICAL CONDITIONS. 1125 00:32:03,355 --> 00:32:04,488 AND SIGNS, TO THEIR MEDICAL CONDITIONS. AND THAT'S HOW YOU THINK OF 1126 00:32:04,490 --> 00:32:04,988 CONDITIONS. AND THAT'S HOW YOU THINK OF THEM. 1127 00:32:04,990 --> 00:32:06,023 AND THAT'S HOW YOU THINK OF THEM. >> Pelley: LUFT LISTENED TO 1128 00:32:06,025 --> 00:32:06,890 THEM. >> Pelley: LUFT LISTENED TO THEIR STORIES IN THE EXAMINING 1129 00:32:06,892 --> 00:32:10,494 >> Pelley: LUFT LISTENED TO THEIR STORIES IN THE EXAMINING ROOM FOR EIGHT YEARS WHEN HE 1130 00:32:10,496 --> 00:32:11,762 THEIR STORIES IN THE EXAMINING ROOM FOR EIGHT YEARS WHEN HE REALIZED THAT HIS PATIENTS WERE 1131 00:32:11,764 --> 00:32:13,830 ROOM FOR EIGHT YEARS WHEN HE REALIZED THAT HIS PATIENTS WERE THE AUTHORS OF ONE OF THE MOST 1132 00:32:13,832 --> 00:32:14,798 REALIZED THAT HIS PATIENTS WERE THE AUTHORS OF ONE OF THE MOST DRAMATIC CHAPTERS OF AMERICAN 1133 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,200 THE AUTHORS OF ONE OF THE MOST DRAMATIC CHAPTERS OF AMERICAN HISTORY. 1134 00:32:17,202 --> 00:32:18,068 DRAMATIC CHAPTERS OF AMERICAN HISTORY. >> Luft: YOUR STORY OF WHAT 1135 00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:20,037 HISTORY. >> Luft: YOUR STORY OF WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11. 1136 00:32:20,039 --> 00:32:21,505 >> Luft: YOUR STORY OF WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11. >> SHE BECAME HYSTERICAL. 1137 00:32:21,507 --> 00:32:22,105 HAPPENED ON 9/11. >> SHE BECAME HYSTERICAL. SHE GOT A CELL PHONE CALL THAT 1138 00:32:22,107 --> 00:32:24,875 >> SHE BECAME HYSTERICAL. SHE GOT A CELL PHONE CALL THAT HER... THAT THE TRADE CENTER WAS 1139 00:32:24,877 --> 00:32:26,944 SHE GOT A CELL PHONE CALL THAT HER... THAT THE TRADE CENTER WAS HIT WITH A PLANE. 1140 00:32:26,946 --> 00:32:28,011 HER... THAT THE TRADE CENTER WAS HIT WITH A PLANE. >> Pelley: WITH HIS OWN MONEY, A 1141 00:32:28,013 --> 00:32:29,146 HIT WITH A PLANE. >> Pelley: WITH HIS OWN MONEY, A FEW DONATIONS, AND A SMALL, 1142 00:32:29,148 --> 00:32:31,381 >> Pelley: WITH HIS OWN MONEY, A FEW DONATIONS, AND A SMALL, MOSTLY VOLUNTEER STAFF, LUFT 1143 00:32:31,383 --> 00:32:33,383 FEW DONATIONS, AND A SMALL, MOSTLY VOLUNTEER STAFF, LUFT STARTED HIS INTERVIEWS. 1144 00:32:33,385 --> 00:32:35,485 MOSTLY VOLUNTEER STAFF, LUFT STARTED HIS INTERVIEWS. SO FAR, HE'S RECORDED 137. 1145 00:32:35,487 --> 00:32:41,058 STARTED HIS INTERVIEWS. SO FAR, HE'S RECORDED 137. >> Paukner: WHEN THE BUILDING 1146 00:32:41,060 --> 00:32:42,559 SO FAR, HE'S RECORDED 137. >> Paukner: WHEN THE BUILDING IMPLODED DOWN, IT BLEW ME OUT OF 1147 00:32:42,561 --> 00:32:44,294 >> Paukner: WHEN THE BUILDING IMPLODED DOWN, IT BLEW ME OUT OF THE BUILDING, AND I WAS ABLE TO 1148 00:32:44,296 --> 00:32:46,096 IMPLODED DOWN, IT BLEW ME OUT OF THE BUILDING, AND I WAS ABLE TO HOLD ONTO THE DOORWAY WITH MY 1149 00:32:46,098 --> 00:32:48,365 THE BUILDING, AND I WAS ABLE TO HOLD ONTO THE DOORWAY WITH MY LEFT ARM. 1150 00:32:48,367 --> 00:32:50,334 HOLD ONTO THE DOORWAY WITH MY LEFT ARM. >> Christine Famiglietti: THE 1151 00:32:50,336 --> 00:32:52,436 LEFT ARM. >> Christine Famiglietti: THE FIRST THING I FOUND WAS AN 1152 00:32:52,438 --> 00:32:55,572 >> Christine Famiglietti: THE FIRST THING I FOUND WAS AN ENTIRE BODY, BURNED INTO REBAR. 1153 00:32:55,574 --> 00:32:56,440 FIRST THING I FOUND WAS AN ENTIRE BODY, BURNED INTO REBAR. >> Bill Fischer: THEY... THEY 1154 00:32:56,442 --> 00:32:57,975 ENTIRE BODY, BURNED INTO REBAR. >> Bill Fischer: THEY... THEY PUT A LINE AROUND OUR WAIST. 1155 00:32:57,977 --> 00:32:59,443 >> Bill Fischer: THEY... THEY PUT A LINE AROUND OUR WAIST. I'M LIKE, "I'M GOING IN THIS 1156 00:32:59,445 --> 00:33:00,644 PUT A LINE AROUND OUR WAIST. I'M LIKE, "I'M GOING IN THIS WAY, SNAKING AROUND ON MY BELLY 1157 00:33:00,646 --> 00:33:01,345 I'M LIKE, "I'M GOING IN THIS WAY, SNAKING AROUND ON MY BELLY AROUND," SAYS, "THERE'S NO WAY 1158 00:33:01,347 --> 00:33:03,146 WAY, SNAKING AROUND ON MY BELLY AROUND," SAYS, "THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN PULL ME OUT." 1159 00:33:03,148 --> 00:33:04,848 AROUND," SAYS, "THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN PULL ME OUT." AND THE GUY JUST LOOKED AT ME. 1160 00:33:04,850 --> 00:33:07,250 YOU CAN PULL ME OUT." AND THE GUY JUST LOOKED AT ME. IT WASN'T TO PULL US OUT; IT WAS 1161 00:33:07,252 --> 00:33:11,054 AND THE GUY JUST LOOKED AT ME. IT WASN'T TO PULL US OUT; IT WAS JUST TO FIND US IF WE DIED. 1162 00:33:11,056 --> 00:33:12,522 IT WASN'T TO PULL US OUT; IT WAS JUST TO FIND US IF WE DIED. >> WHERE WE EXPECTED TO SEE TWO 1163 00:33:12,524 --> 00:33:13,156 JUST TO FIND US IF WE DIED. >> WHERE WE EXPECTED TO SEE TWO TALL BUILDINGS, WE JUST SAW A 1164 00:33:13,158 --> 00:33:17,260 >> WHERE WE EXPECTED TO SEE TWO TALL BUILDINGS, WE JUST SAW A SKELETON. 1165 00:33:17,262 --> 00:33:19,963 TALL BUILDINGS, WE JUST SAW A SKELETON. THE MOST POWERFUL NATION IN THE 1166 00:33:19,965 --> 00:33:20,430 SKELETON. THE MOST POWERFUL NATION IN THE WORLD. 1167 00:33:20,432 --> 00:33:23,066 THE MOST POWERFUL NATION IN THE WORLD. HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN? 1168 00:33:23,068 --> 00:33:24,101 WORLD. HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN? >> Luft: THERE'S NO CLEARER 1169 00:33:24,103 --> 00:33:25,669 HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN? >> Luft: THERE'S NO CLEARER RENDITION OF WHAT HAPPENED ON 1170 00:33:25,671 --> 00:33:26,403 >> Luft: THERE'S NO CLEARER RENDITION OF WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11 THAN THERE ARE IN THESE 1171 00:33:26,405 --> 00:33:27,871 RENDITION OF WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11 THAN THERE ARE IN THESE HISTORIES. 1172 00:33:27,873 --> 00:33:29,272 9/11 THAN THERE ARE IN THESE HISTORIES. >> Pelley: WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? 1173 00:33:29,274 --> 00:33:30,707 HISTORIES. >> Pelley: WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? >> Luft: SO, OF COURSE, WE HAVE 1174 00:33:30,709 --> 00:33:34,244 >> Pelley: WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? >> Luft: SO, OF COURSE, WE HAVE THE FIREMEN AND THE POLICEMEN 1175 00:33:34,246 --> 00:33:35,012 >> Luft: SO, OF COURSE, WE HAVE THE FIREMEN AND THE POLICEMEN AND THE E.M.S. WORKERS. 1176 00:33:35,014 --> 00:33:35,645 THE FIREMEN AND THE POLICEMEN AND THE E.M.S. WORKERS. AND THEN, WE HAVE THE VOLUNTEER 1177 00:33:35,647 --> 00:33:36,947 AND THE E.M.S. WORKERS. AND THEN, WE HAVE THE VOLUNTEER FIREMEN. 1178 00:33:36,949 --> 00:33:38,048 AND THEN, WE HAVE THE VOLUNTEER FIREMEN. AND THEN, YOU HAVE THE 1179 00:33:38,050 --> 00:33:39,082 FIREMEN. AND THEN, YOU HAVE THE IRONWORKERS AND THE CONSTRUCTION 1180 00:33:39,084 --> 00:33:41,752 AND THEN, YOU HAVE THE IRONWORKERS AND THE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS AND THE LABORERS. 1181 00:33:41,754 --> 00:33:44,888 IRONWORKERS AND THE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS AND THE LABORERS. ON 9/11, ALL AMERICANS 1182 00:33:44,890 --> 00:33:45,722 WORKERS AND THE LABORERS. ON 9/11, ALL AMERICANS RESPONDED, FROM ALL WALKS OF 1183 00:33:45,724 --> 00:33:47,591 ON 9/11, ALL AMERICANS RESPONDED, FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE. 1184 00:33:47,593 --> 00:33:48,325 RESPONDED, FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE. >> I WAS A SENIOR IN HIGH 1185 00:33:48,327 --> 00:33:49,726 LIFE. >> I WAS A SENIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL. 1186 00:33:49,728 --> 00:33:51,028 >> I WAS A SENIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL. I REALIZED I HAD TO GO DOWN 1187 00:33:51,030 --> 00:33:53,597 SCHOOL. I REALIZED I HAD TO GO DOWN THERE. 1188 00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:54,297 I REALIZED I HAD TO GO DOWN THERE. I DON'T KNOW HOW I'M GOING TO 1189 00:33:54,299 --> 00:33:54,998 THERE. I DON'T KNOW HOW I'M GOING TO HELP; I DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN 1190 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,067 I DON'T KNOW HOW I'M GOING TO HELP; I DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN DO. 1191 00:33:57,069 --> 00:33:59,436 HELP; I DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN DO. >> MY WHOLE FAMILY IS COPS. 1192 00:33:59,438 --> 00:34:01,405 DO. >> MY WHOLE FAMILY IS COPS. I'M THE 13TH IN MY FAMILY BEING 1193 00:34:01,407 --> 00:34:04,608 >> MY WHOLE FAMILY IS COPS. I'M THE 13TH IN MY FAMILY BEING A NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICER. 1194 00:34:04,610 --> 00:34:05,175 I'M THE 13TH IN MY FAMILY BEING A NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICER. >> I AM A LICENSED MASSAGE 1195 00:34:05,177 --> 00:34:06,076 A NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICER. >> I AM A LICENSED MASSAGE THERAPIST. 1196 00:34:06,078 --> 00:34:08,712 >> I AM A LICENSED MASSAGE THERAPIST. I JUST FELT LIKE I HAD TO BE 1197 00:34:08,714 --> 00:34:11,114 THERAPIST. I JUST FELT LIKE I HAD TO BE DOWN THERE HELPING THESE PEOPLE, 1198 00:34:11,116 --> 00:34:12,215 I JUST FELT LIKE I HAD TO BE DOWN THERE HELPING THESE PEOPLE, KNOWING WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING 1199 00:34:12,217 --> 00:34:16,386 DOWN THERE HELPING THESE PEOPLE, KNOWING WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING CAN HELP THESE PEOPLE. 1200 00:34:16,388 --> 00:34:17,087 KNOWING WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING CAN HELP THESE PEOPLE. >> I WORK FOR THE N.Y.C. HIGHWAY 1201 00:34:17,089 --> 00:34:17,554 CAN HELP THESE PEOPLE. >> I WORK FOR THE N.Y.C. HIGHWAY DEPT. 1202 00:34:17,556 --> 00:34:18,088 >> I WORK FOR THE N.Y.C. HIGHWAY DEPT. I.... YOU KNOW, ROADWORK, 1203 00:34:18,090 --> 00:34:18,688 DEPT. I.... YOU KNOW, ROADWORK, CONSTRUCTION, STUFF LIKE THAT. 1204 00:34:18,690 --> 00:34:19,256 I.... YOU KNOW, ROADWORK, CONSTRUCTION, STUFF LIKE THAT. I NEVER TRAINED FOR ANYTHING 1205 00:34:19,258 --> 00:34:20,190 CONSTRUCTION, STUFF LIKE THAT. I NEVER TRAINED FOR ANYTHING LIKE THIS. 1206 00:34:20,192 --> 00:34:24,227 I NEVER TRAINED FOR ANYTHING LIKE THIS. AND I LEARNED QUICK, THOUGH. 1207 00:34:24,229 --> 00:34:24,861 LIKE THIS. AND I LEARNED QUICK, THOUGH. >> Pelley: WE SPENT A FEW HOURS 1208 00:34:24,863 --> 00:34:25,462 AND I LEARNED QUICK, THOUGH. >> Pelley: WE SPENT A FEW HOURS WITH SOME OF THE RESPONDERS AT 1209 00:34:25,464 --> 00:34:28,799 >> Pelley: WE SPENT A FEW HOURS WITH SOME OF THE RESPONDERS AT STONY BROOK UNIVERSITY. 1210 00:34:28,801 --> 00:34:30,467 WITH SOME OF THE RESPONDERS AT STONY BROOK UNIVERSITY. AND AS WE LISTENED, WE REALIZED 1211 00:34:30,469 --> 00:34:32,235 STONY BROOK UNIVERSITY. AND AS WE LISTENED, WE REALIZED THAT, FOR THEM, TODAY, SUNDAY, 1212 00:34:32,237 --> 00:34:34,104 AND AS WE LISTENED, WE REALIZED THAT, FOR THEM, TODAY, SUNDAY, ISN'T THE TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF 1213 00:34:34,106 --> 00:34:36,640 THAT, FOR THEM, TODAY, SUNDAY, ISN'T THE TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED; IT'S 1214 00:34:36,642 --> 00:34:37,340 ISN'T THE TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED; IT'S THE TENTH YEAR OF SOMETHING THAT 1215 00:34:37,342 --> 00:34:38,575 SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED; IT'S THE TENTH YEAR OF SOMETHING THAT NEVER ENDS. 1216 00:34:38,577 --> 00:34:41,411 THE TENTH YEAR OF SOMETHING THAT NEVER ENDS. IN A SENSE, IT'S ALWAYS 9/11. 1217 00:34:41,413 --> 00:34:43,280 NEVER ENDS. IN A SENSE, IT'S ALWAYS 9/11. JOHN GALLAGHER IS A FORMER NEW 1218 00:34:43,282 --> 00:34:44,681 IN A SENSE, IT'S ALWAYS 9/11. JOHN GALLAGHER IS A FORMER NEW YORK CITY FIRE CAPTAIN SUFFERING 1219 00:34:44,683 --> 00:34:47,117 JOHN GALLAGHER IS A FORMER NEW YORK CITY FIRE CAPTAIN SUFFERING WITH PULMONARY FIBROSIS, 1220 00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:48,618 YORK CITY FIRE CAPTAIN SUFFERING WITH PULMONARY FIBROSIS, SCARRING OF THE LUNGS THAT ONLY 1221 00:34:48,620 --> 00:34:50,387 WITH PULMONARY FIBROSIS, SCARRING OF THE LUNGS THAT ONLY GETS WORSE. 1222 00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:52,923 SCARRING OF THE LUNGS THAT ONLY GETS WORSE. >> John Gallagher: THE WORLD 1223 00:34:52,925 --> 00:34:53,523 GETS WORSE. >> John Gallagher: THE WORLD TRADE CENTER IS STILL CLAIMING 1224 00:34:53,525 --> 00:34:56,326 >> John Gallagher: THE WORLD TRADE CENTER IS STILL CLAIMING LIVES. 1225 00:34:56,328 --> 00:34:57,327 TRADE CENTER IS STILL CLAIMING LIVES. PEOPLE HAVE HAD THEIR LIVES 1226 00:34:57,329 --> 00:35:00,330 LIVES. PEOPLE HAVE HAD THEIR LIVES SHORTENED. 1227 00:35:00,332 --> 00:35:01,031 PEOPLE HAVE HAD THEIR LIVES SHORTENED. PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR FATHERS, 1228 00:35:01,033 --> 00:35:02,632 SHORTENED. PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR FATHERS, THEIR... THEIR MOTHERS TO 1229 00:35:02,634 --> 00:35:06,570 PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR FATHERS, THEIR... THEIR MOTHERS TO CANCERS, TO LUNG DISEASES, 1230 00:35:06,572 --> 00:35:07,604 THEIR... THEIR MOTHERS TO CANCERS, TO LUNG DISEASES, ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE, 1231 00:35:07,606 --> 00:35:09,372 CANCERS, TO LUNG DISEASES, ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE, BLOOD-BORNE DISEASES. 1232 00:35:09,374 --> 00:35:13,677 ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE, BLOOD-BORNE DISEASES. PEOPLE ARE STILL DYING. 1233 00:35:13,679 --> 00:35:14,978 BLOOD-BORNE DISEASES. PEOPLE ARE STILL DYING. >> Pelley: SHOW OF HANDS. 1234 00:35:14,980 --> 00:35:15,612 PEOPLE ARE STILL DYING. >> Pelley: SHOW OF HANDS. HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN LIVING 1235 00:35:15,614 --> 00:35:16,646 >> Pelley: SHOW OF HANDS. HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN LIVING THROUGH MEDICAL PROBLEMS AS A 1236 00:35:16,648 --> 00:35:18,415 HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN LIVING THROUGH MEDICAL PROBLEMS AS A RESULT OF THE WORK THAT YOU DID 1237 00:35:18,417 --> 00:35:22,919 THROUGH MEDICAL PROBLEMS AS A RESULT OF THE WORK THAT YOU DID IN THOSE DAYS? 1238 00:35:22,921 --> 00:35:24,488 RESULT OF THE WORK THAT YOU DID IN THOSE DAYS? ALMOST ALL OF YOU. 1239 00:35:24,490 --> 00:35:26,323 IN THOSE DAYS? ALMOST ALL OF YOU. BILL, GIVE ME A SENSE OF WHAT 1240 00:35:26,325 --> 00:35:26,890 ALMOST ALL OF YOU. BILL, GIVE ME A SENSE OF WHAT YOU'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH, 1241 00:35:26,892 --> 00:35:30,760 BILL, GIVE ME A SENSE OF WHAT YOU'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH, HEALTH-WISE. 1242 00:35:30,762 --> 00:35:32,229 YOU'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH, HEALTH-WISE. >> Fischer: I HAVE ASTHMA, I 1243 00:35:32,231 --> 00:35:35,031 HEALTH-WISE. >> Fischer: I HAVE ASTHMA, I HAVE NODULES ON BOTH LUNGS, 1244 00:35:35,033 --> 00:35:37,434 >> Fischer: I HAVE ASTHMA, I HAVE NODULES ON BOTH LUNGS, SINUSITIS, RHINITIS. 1245 00:35:37,436 --> 00:35:39,936 HAVE NODULES ON BOTH LUNGS, SINUSITIS, RHINITIS. >> Pelley: BILL FISCHER WAS A 1246 00:35:39,938 --> 00:35:41,271 SINUSITIS, RHINITIS. >> Pelley: BILL FISCHER WAS A NEW YORK CITY COP, NOW RETIRED. 1247 00:35:41,273 --> 00:35:42,305 >> Pelley: BILL FISCHER WAS A NEW YORK CITY COP, NOW RETIRED. >> Fischer: I... I NEVER SMOKED, 1248 00:35:42,307 --> 00:35:44,574 NEW YORK CITY COP, NOW RETIRED. >> Fischer: I... I NEVER SMOKED, I DON'T DRINK. 1249 00:35:44,576 --> 00:35:47,844 >> Fischer: I... I NEVER SMOKED, I DON'T DRINK. I'M... I GO THE GYM AS OFTEN AS 1250 00:35:47,846 --> 00:35:48,545 I DON'T DRINK. I'M... I GO THE GYM AS OFTEN AS I CAN, AND IT'S NOT AS MUCH AS I 1251 00:35:48,547 --> 00:35:49,646 I'M... I GO THE GYM AS OFTEN AS I CAN, AND IT'S NOT AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE TO ANYMORE. 1252 00:35:49,648 --> 00:35:51,748 I CAN, AND IT'S NOT AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE TO ANYMORE. I LITERALLY HAVE A BUCKET OF 1253 00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:54,751 WOULD LIKE TO ANYMORE. I LITERALLY HAVE A BUCKET OF ABOUT 20 MEDICINES, A PLASTIC 1254 00:35:54,753 --> 00:35:55,652 I LITERALLY HAVE A BUCKET OF ABOUT 20 MEDICINES, A PLASTIC BUCKET THAT I HAVE TO TAKE 1255 00:35:55,654 --> 00:35:57,521 ABOUT 20 MEDICINES, A PLASTIC BUCKET THAT I HAVE TO TAKE SOMETHING DURING THE DAY. 1256 00:35:57,523 --> 00:36:00,657 BUCKET THAT I HAVE TO TAKE SOMETHING DURING THE DAY. >> Pelley: THIS IS BILL FISCHER. 1257 00:36:00,659 --> 00:36:01,491 SOMETHING DURING THE DAY. >> Pelley: THIS IS BILL FISCHER. HE WORKED AT GROUND ZERO FOR 1258 00:36:01,493 --> 00:36:03,793 >> Pelley: THIS IS BILL FISCHER. HE WORKED AT GROUND ZERO FOR FOUR MONTHS. 1259 00:36:03,795 --> 00:36:08,665 HE WORKED AT GROUND ZERO FOR FOUR MONTHS. AND LIKE THOUSANDS OF OTHERS, HE 1260 00:36:08,667 --> 00:36:09,499 FOUR MONTHS. AND LIKE THOUSANDS OF OTHERS, HE WAS COVERED IN DUST THAT 1261 00:36:09,501 --> 00:36:10,133 AND LIKE THOUSANDS OF OTHERS, HE WAS COVERED IN DUST THAT CONTAINED CARCINOGENS, ASBESTOS, 1262 00:36:10,135 --> 00:36:11,201 WAS COVERED IN DUST THAT CONTAINED CARCINOGENS, ASBESTOS, AND TOXINS TOO NUMEROUS TO LIST. 1263 00:36:11,203 --> 00:36:12,836 CONTAINED CARCINOGENS, ASBESTOS, AND TOXINS TOO NUMEROUS TO LIST. KEN GEORGE WAS THERE, TOO. 1264 00:36:12,838 --> 00:36:14,671 AND TOXINS TOO NUMEROUS TO LIST. KEN GEORGE WAS THERE, TOO. HE HELPED RECOVER HUMAN REMAINS. 1265 00:36:14,673 --> 00:36:15,372 KEN GEORGE WAS THERE, TOO. HE HELPED RECOVER HUMAN REMAINS. KEN, WHAT... WHAT HAS YOUR 1266 00:36:15,374 --> 00:36:16,940 HE HELPED RECOVER HUMAN REMAINS. KEN, WHAT... WHAT HAS YOUR HEALTH EXPERIENCE BEEN? 1267 00:36:16,942 --> 00:36:18,341 KEN, WHAT... WHAT HAS YOUR HEALTH EXPERIENCE BEEN? >> Ken George: OH, I GOT A LIST. 1268 00:36:18,343 --> 00:36:18,909 HEALTH EXPERIENCE BEEN? >> Ken George: OH, I GOT A LIST. >> Pelley: EVERYBODY'S GOT A 1269 00:36:18,911 --> 00:36:20,177 >> Ken George: OH, I GOT A LIST. >> Pelley: EVERYBODY'S GOT A LIST, IT SOUNDS LIKE. 1270 00:36:20,179 --> 00:36:22,012 >> Pelley: EVERYBODY'S GOT A LIST, IT SOUNDS LIKE. >> George: IT STARTED WITH THE 1271 00:36:22,014 --> 00:36:25,749 LIST, IT SOUNDS LIKE. >> George: IT STARTED WITH THE 9/11 COUGH I HAD, WHICH LED ME 1272 00:36:25,751 --> 00:36:26,383 >> George: IT STARTED WITH THE 9/11 COUGH I HAD, WHICH LED ME TO HAVE RADS-- RESTRICTED AIRWAY 1273 00:36:26,385 --> 00:36:28,852 9/11 COUGH I HAD, WHICH LED ME TO HAVE RADS-- RESTRICTED AIRWAY DISEASE-- WHICH MEANS I CAN'T 1274 00:36:28,854 --> 00:36:29,953 TO HAVE RADS-- RESTRICTED AIRWAY DISEASE-- WHICH MEANS I CAN'T GET ENOUGH OXYGEN IN OR OUT. 1275 00:36:29,955 --> 00:36:31,521 DISEASE-- WHICH MEANS I CAN'T GET ENOUGH OXYGEN IN OR OUT. LIKE THESE PEOPLE SAID, THE 1276 00:36:31,523 --> 00:36:33,323 GET ENOUGH OXYGEN IN OR OUT. LIKE THESE PEOPLE SAID, THE SINUSES, I HAVE ALL THAT. 1277 00:36:33,325 --> 00:36:35,025 LIKE THESE PEOPLE SAID, THE SINUSES, I HAVE ALL THAT. SO IT'S JUST STARTED SNOWBALLING 1278 00:36:35,027 --> 00:36:36,526 SINUSES, I HAVE ALL THAT. SO IT'S JUST STARTED SNOWBALLING OUT OF CONTROL, YOU KNOW WHAT I 1279 00:36:36,528 --> 00:36:37,594 SO IT'S JUST STARTED SNOWBALLING OUT OF CONTROL, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? 1280 00:36:37,596 --> 00:36:43,433 OUT OF CONTROL, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? AND WHO KNOWS IF, FIVE YEARS 1281 00:36:43,435 --> 00:36:44,034 MEAN? AND WHO KNOWS IF, FIVE YEARS DOWN THE LINE, IF I'M GOING TO 1282 00:36:44,036 --> 00:36:44,634 AND WHO KNOWS IF, FIVE YEARS DOWN THE LINE, IF I'M GOING TO WIND UP WITH CANCER, YOU KNOW. 1283 00:36:44,636 --> 00:36:45,302 DOWN THE LINE, IF I'M GOING TO WIND UP WITH CANCER, YOU KNOW. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M... 1284 00:36:45,304 --> 00:36:46,670 WIND UP WITH CANCER, YOU KNOW. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M... MY FAMILY'S TAKEN CARE OF, IF 1285 00:36:46,672 --> 00:36:48,638 I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M... MY FAMILY'S TAKEN CARE OF, IF ANYTHING HAPPENS, YOU KNOW? 1286 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,777 MY FAMILY'S TAKEN CARE OF, IF ANYTHING HAPPENS, YOU KNOW? I JUST DON'T WANT THEM TO BE OUT 1287 00:36:53,779 --> 00:36:54,611 ANYTHING HAPPENS, YOU KNOW? I JUST DON'T WANT THEM TO BE OUT ON THE STREET. 1288 00:36:54,613 --> 00:36:55,879 I JUST DON'T WANT THEM TO BE OUT ON THE STREET. >> Luft: ANY PAIN? 1289 00:36:55,881 --> 00:36:56,980 ON THE STREET. >> Luft: ANY PAIN? >> Pelley: PAYING THEIR MEDICAL 1290 00:36:56,982 --> 00:36:58,248 >> Luft: ANY PAIN? >> Pelley: PAYING THEIR MEDICAL BILLS HAS BEEN A STRUGGLE. 1291 00:36:58,250 --> 00:36:58,982 >> Pelley: PAYING THEIR MEDICAL BILLS HAS BEEN A STRUGGLE. FUNDING FOR THE WORLD TRADE 1292 00:36:58,984 --> 00:36:59,616 BILLS HAS BEEN A STRUGGLE. FUNDING FOR THE WORLD TRADE CENTER HEALTH PROGRAM WAS NEVER 1293 00:36:59,618 --> 00:37:00,217 FUNDING FOR THE WORLD TRADE CENTER HEALTH PROGRAM WAS NEVER CERTAIN UNTIL THIS YEAR, WHEN 1294 00:37:00,219 --> 00:37:01,985 CENTER HEALTH PROGRAM WAS NEVER CERTAIN UNTIL THIS YEAR, WHEN CONGRESS GUARANTEED COVERAGE. 1295 00:37:01,987 --> 00:37:04,588 CERTAIN UNTIL THIS YEAR, WHEN CONGRESS GUARANTEED COVERAGE. BUT THAT GUARANTEE LASTS ONLY 1296 00:37:04,590 --> 00:37:06,489 CONGRESS GUARANTEED COVERAGE. BUT THAT GUARANTEE LASTS ONLY THE NEXT FIVE YEARS; THE 1297 00:37:06,491 --> 00:37:08,725 BUT THAT GUARANTEE LASTS ONLY THE NEXT FIVE YEARS; THE ILLNESSES AND THE MENTAL TRAUMA 1298 00:37:08,727 --> 00:37:11,161 THE NEXT FIVE YEARS; THE ILLNESSES AND THE MENTAL TRAUMA ARE LIKELY TO LAST A LIFETIME. 1299 00:37:11,163 --> 00:37:12,462 ILLNESSES AND THE MENTAL TRAUMA ARE LIKELY TO LAST A LIFETIME. >> Tyree Bacon: ONE THING 1300 00:37:12,464 --> 00:37:13,530 ARE LIKELY TO LAST A LIFETIME. >> Tyree Bacon: ONE THING NOBODY'S MENTIONED, BUT WE ALL 1301 00:37:13,532 --> 00:37:14,564 >> Tyree Bacon: ONE THING NOBODY'S MENTIONED, BUT WE ALL HAVE IT-- IT'S LIKE LUGGAGE AND 1302 00:37:14,566 --> 00:37:17,367 NOBODY'S MENTIONED, BUT WE ALL HAVE IT-- IT'S LIKE LUGGAGE AND WE HAVE IT FOREVER-- IS THE 1303 00:37:17,369 --> 00:37:17,834 HAVE IT-- IT'S LIKE LUGGAGE AND WE HAVE IT FOREVER-- IS THE POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS. 1304 00:37:17,836 --> 00:37:18,335 WE HAVE IT FOREVER-- IS THE POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS. >> Paukner: YEP. 1305 00:37:18,337 --> 00:37:19,169 POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS. >> Paukner: YEP. >> Pelley: TYREE BACON WAS A 1306 00:37:19,171 --> 00:37:21,204 >> Paukner: YEP. >> Pelley: TYREE BACON WAS A SENIOR COURT OFFICER WHO WORKED 1307 00:37:21,206 --> 00:37:23,907 >> Pelley: TYREE BACON WAS A SENIOR COURT OFFICER WHO WORKED TEN BLOCKS FROM THE WORLD TRADE 1308 00:37:23,909 --> 00:37:24,808 SENIOR COURT OFFICER WHO WORKED TEN BLOCKS FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. 1309 00:37:24,810 --> 00:37:25,408 TEN BLOCKS FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. HE REACHED THE TOWERS BEFORE 1310 00:37:25,410 --> 00:37:26,509 CENTER. HE REACHED THE TOWERS BEFORE THEY COLLAPSED. 1311 00:37:26,511 --> 00:37:27,410 HE REACHED THE TOWERS BEFORE THEY COLLAPSED. >> Bacon: THOSE OF US WHO WEAR 1312 00:37:27,412 --> 00:37:28,211 THEY COLLAPSED. >> Bacon: THOSE OF US WHO WEAR UNIFORMS MAKE A LIVING OUT OF 1313 00:37:28,213 --> 00:37:29,112 >> Bacon: THOSE OF US WHO WEAR UNIFORMS MAKE A LIVING OUT OF THE WORST TEN MINUTES OF 1314 00:37:29,114 --> 00:37:31,414 UNIFORMS MAKE A LIVING OUT OF THE WORST TEN MINUTES OF EVERYBODY'S LIVES. 1315 00:37:31,416 --> 00:37:33,917 THE WORST TEN MINUTES OF EVERYBODY'S LIVES. 9/11 WAS A HELL OF A LOT LONGER 1316 00:37:33,919 --> 00:37:34,784 EVERYBODY'S LIVES. 9/11 WAS A HELL OF A LOT LONGER THAN TEN MINUTES LONG. 1317 00:37:34,786 --> 00:37:36,253 9/11 WAS A HELL OF A LOT LONGER THAN TEN MINUTES LONG. POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS IS 1318 00:37:36,255 --> 00:37:37,721 THAN TEN MINUTES LONG. POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE A ISSUE 1319 00:37:37,723 --> 00:37:38,989 POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE A ISSUE WITH. 1320 00:37:38,991 --> 00:37:42,058 SOMETHING THAT I HAVE A ISSUE WITH. SPENT A MONTH AFTER BEING CAUGHT 1321 00:37:42,060 --> 00:37:43,159 WITH. SPENT A MONTH AFTER BEING CAUGHT IN THE COLLAPSE, WAKING UP ON 1322 00:37:43,161 --> 00:37:44,661 SPENT A MONTH AFTER BEING CAUGHT IN THE COLLAPSE, WAKING UP ON THE FLOOR, TRYING TO FEEL MY... 1323 00:37:44,663 --> 00:37:46,563 IN THE COLLAPSE, WAKING UP ON THE FLOOR, TRYING TO FEEL MY... MY WAY OUT OF MY OWN BEDROOM. 1324 00:37:46,565 --> 00:37:48,732 THE FLOOR, TRYING TO FEEL MY... MY WAY OUT OF MY OWN BEDROOM. THAT WENT ON FOR OVER A MONTH. 1325 00:37:48,734 --> 00:37:49,366 MY WAY OUT OF MY OWN BEDROOM. THAT WENT ON FOR OVER A MONTH. >> Pelley: THIS IS TYREE BACON, 1326 00:37:49,368 --> 00:37:50,734 THAT WENT ON FOR OVER A MONTH. >> Pelley: THIS IS TYREE BACON, IN THE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, 1327 00:37:50,736 --> 00:37:52,135 >> Pelley: THIS IS TYREE BACON, IN THE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, REMEMBERING A WOMAN WHO GRABBED 1328 00:37:52,137 --> 00:37:53,837 IN THE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, REMEMBERING A WOMAN WHO GRABBED HIM BY THE SHIRT AS ONE OF THE 1329 00:37:53,839 --> 00:37:56,539 REMEMBERING A WOMAN WHO GRABBED HIM BY THE SHIRT AS ONE OF THE TOWERS FELL. 1330 00:37:56,541 --> 00:37:57,741 HIM BY THE SHIRT AS ONE OF THE TOWERS FELL. >> Bacon: AND I TOLD HER, I 1331 00:37:57,743 --> 00:37:58,375 TOWERS FELL. >> Bacon: AND I TOLD HER, I SAID, "SWEETHEART, DON'T WORRY, 1332 00:37:58,377 --> 00:37:58,975 >> Bacon: AND I TOLD HER, I SAID, "SWEETHEART, DON'T WORRY, I PROMISE WE'RE GETTING OUT OF 1333 00:37:58,977 --> 00:38:00,110 SAID, "SWEETHEART, DON'T WORRY, I PROMISE WE'RE GETTING OUT OF HERE." 1334 00:38:00,112 --> 00:38:00,944 I PROMISE WE'RE GETTING OUT OF HERE." I FLAT-OUT LIED TO HER. 1335 00:38:00,946 --> 00:38:01,544 HERE." I FLAT-OUT LIED TO HER. I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO DIE 1336 00:38:01,546 --> 00:38:05,215 I FLAT-OUT LIED TO HER. I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO DIE WHERE WE WERE. 1337 00:38:05,217 --> 00:38:06,349 I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO DIE WHERE WE WERE. IF I DIDN'T HAVE HER, I PROBABLY 1338 00:38:06,351 --> 00:38:09,319 WHERE WE WERE. IF I DIDN'T HAVE HER, I PROBABLY WOULD'VE CURLED UP IN A FETAL 1339 00:38:09,321 --> 00:38:13,657 IF I DIDN'T HAVE HER, I PROBABLY WOULD'VE CURLED UP IN A FETAL POSITION AND JUST WAITED TO DIE. 1340 00:38:13,659 --> 00:38:14,424 WOULD'VE CURLED UP IN A FETAL POSITION AND JUST WAITED TO DIE. >> Luft: WHEN THAT RESPONDER 1341 00:38:14,426 --> 00:38:19,963 POSITION AND JUST WAITED TO DIE. >> Luft: WHEN THAT RESPONDER WENT DOWN TO GROUND ZERO, THEY 1342 00:38:19,965 --> 00:38:22,032 >> Luft: WHEN THAT RESPONDER WENT DOWN TO GROUND ZERO, THEY WERE EXPERIENCING TRAUMATIC 1343 00:38:22,034 --> 00:38:27,737 WENT DOWN TO GROUND ZERO, THEY WERE EXPERIENCING TRAUMATIC EVENTS IN RAPID SUCCESSION: 1344 00:38:27,739 --> 00:38:28,405 WERE EXPERIENCING TRAUMATIC EVENTS IN RAPID SUCCESSION: BUILDINGS FALLING, GIRDERS 1345 00:38:28,407 --> 00:38:29,739 EVENTS IN RAPID SUCCESSION: BUILDINGS FALLING, GIRDERS FALLING, TRIPPING, YOU KNOW, 1346 00:38:29,741 --> 00:38:31,508 BUILDINGS FALLING, GIRDERS FALLING, TRIPPING, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE JUMPING OUT OF BUILDINGS, 1347 00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:32,842 FALLING, TRIPPING, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE JUMPING OUT OF BUILDINGS, SEEING TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF 1348 00:38:32,844 --> 00:38:33,610 PEOPLE JUMPING OUT OF BUILDINGS, SEEING TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF CARNAGE. 1349 00:38:33,612 --> 00:38:34,077 SEEING TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF CARNAGE. >> Pelley: THE FIRES. 1350 00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:35,779 CARNAGE. >> Pelley: THE FIRES. >> Luft: THE FIRES. 1351 00:38:35,781 --> 00:38:37,013 >> Pelley: THE FIRES. >> Luft: THE FIRES. NOW, IT'S NOT OCCURRING OVER A 1352 00:38:37,015 --> 00:38:38,281 >> Luft: THE FIRES. NOW, IT'S NOT OCCURRING OVER A TEN-SECOND PERIOD OF TIME; IT'S 1353 00:38:38,283 --> 00:38:39,182 NOW, IT'S NOT OCCURRING OVER A TEN-SECOND PERIOD OF TIME; IT'S OCCURRING OVER WEEKS AND MONTHS. 1354 00:38:39,184 --> 00:38:42,919 TEN-SECOND PERIOD OF TIME; IT'S OCCURRING OVER WEEKS AND MONTHS. AND THE SAME PERSON IS 1355 00:38:42,921 --> 00:38:44,254 OCCURRING OVER WEEKS AND MONTHS. AND THE SAME PERSON IS EXPERIENCING IT OVER AND OVER 1356 00:38:44,256 --> 00:38:48,224 AND THE SAME PERSON IS EXPERIENCING IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. 1357 00:38:48,226 --> 00:38:49,392 EXPERIENCING IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. >> Paukner: THE JUMPERS, I 1358 00:38:49,394 --> 00:38:51,461 AND OVER AGAIN. >> Paukner: THE JUMPERS, I THINK, WERE THE WORST, YOU KNOW? 1359 00:38:51,463 --> 00:38:53,596 >> Paukner: THE JUMPERS, I THINK, WERE THE WORST, YOU KNOW? TO ACTUALLY SEE THEM JUMP AND... 1360 00:38:53,598 --> 00:38:54,698 THINK, WERE THE WORST, YOU KNOW? TO ACTUALLY SEE THEM JUMP AND... AND PULVERIZE JUST IN FRONT OF 1361 00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:58,501 TO ACTUALLY SEE THEM JUMP AND... AND PULVERIZE JUST IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU KNOW? 1362 00:38:58,503 --> 00:38:59,469 AND PULVERIZE JUST IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU KNOW? THAT WAS JUST HORRIBLE. 1363 00:38:59,471 --> 00:39:00,904 YOU, YOU KNOW? THAT WAS JUST HORRIBLE. >> Pelley: THERE WAS A SOUND... 1364 00:39:00,906 --> 00:39:01,604 THAT WAS JUST HORRIBLE. >> Pelley: THERE WAS A SOUND... >> Paukner: YEAH. 1365 00:39:01,606 --> 00:39:02,505 >> Pelley: THERE WAS A SOUND... >> Paukner: YEAH. >> Pelley: ...THAT THAT MADE. 1366 00:39:02,507 --> 00:39:04,274 >> Paukner: YEAH. >> Pelley: ...THAT THAT MADE. >> Paukner: THAT WAS, FIRST... I 1367 00:39:04,276 --> 00:39:05,308 >> Pelley: ...THAT THAT MADE. >> Paukner: THAT WAS, FIRST... I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT SOUND WAS, 1368 00:39:05,310 --> 00:39:06,543 >> Paukner: THAT WAS, FIRST... I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT SOUND WAS, AT FIRST. 1369 00:39:06,545 --> 00:39:08,678 DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT SOUND WAS, AT FIRST. AND THEN, YOU GO TO SEE WHAT 1370 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,147 AT FIRST. AND THEN, YOU GO TO SEE WHAT THAT SOUND WAS, AND YOU REALIZE 1371 00:39:11,149 --> 00:39:12,682 AND THEN, YOU GO TO SEE WHAT THAT SOUND WAS, AND YOU REALIZE THAT IT WAS A PERSON THAT HAD 1372 00:39:12,684 --> 00:39:15,251 THAT SOUND WAS, AND YOU REALIZE THAT IT WAS A PERSON THAT HAD JUST JUMPED. 1373 00:39:15,253 --> 00:39:18,588 THAT IT WAS A PERSON THAT HAD JUST JUMPED. IF IT'S THAT BAD UP THERE THAT 1374 00:39:18,590 --> 00:39:20,123 JUST JUMPED. IF IT'S THAT BAD UP THERE THAT YOU HAVE TO JUMP, YOU KNOW? 1375 00:39:20,125 --> 00:39:21,758 IF IT'S THAT BAD UP THERE THAT YOU HAVE TO JUMP, YOU KNOW? A LOT WE COULDN'T SEE. 1376 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,760 YOU HAVE TO JUMP, YOU KNOW? A LOT WE COULDN'T SEE. >> Luft: ALMOST INVARIABLY, 1377 00:39:23,762 --> 00:39:25,762 A LOT WE COULDN'T SEE. >> Luft: ALMOST INVARIABLY, PEOPLE COME TO US AFTERWARDS AND 1378 00:39:25,764 --> 00:39:27,564 >> Luft: ALMOST INVARIABLY, PEOPLE COME TO US AFTERWARDS AND SAY, "YOU KNOW, DOC, THIS IS THE 1379 00:39:27,566 --> 00:39:28,565 PEOPLE COME TO US AFTERWARDS AND SAY, "YOU KNOW, DOC, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I'VE BEEN ABLE 1380 00:39:28,567 --> 00:39:29,599 SAY, "YOU KNOW, DOC, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THIS. 1381 00:39:29,601 --> 00:39:33,036 FIRST TIME THAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THIS. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I 1382 00:39:33,038 --> 00:39:34,637 TO TALK ABOUT THIS. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I CAN TELL OTHERS WHAT REALLY 1383 00:39:34,639 --> 00:39:37,841 THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I CAN TELL OTHERS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON 9/11." 1384 00:39:37,843 --> 00:39:40,009 CAN TELL OTHERS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON 9/11." >> Gallagher: IN THE THREE 1385 00:39:40,011 --> 00:39:40,777 HAPPENED ON 9/11." >> Gallagher: IN THE THREE MONTHS THAT I WAS THERE, WE 1386 00:39:40,779 --> 00:39:45,949 >> Gallagher: IN THE THREE MONTHS THAT I WAS THERE, WE FOUND VERY, VERY FEW VICTIMS. 1387 00:39:45,951 --> 00:39:50,954 MONTHS THAT I WAS THERE, WE FOUND VERY, VERY FEW VICTIMS. WE FOUND PIECES, BUT NOT BODIES. 1388 00:39:50,956 --> 00:39:52,155 FOUND VERY, VERY FEW VICTIMS. WE FOUND PIECES, BUT NOT BODIES. THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I EVER 1389 00:39:52,157 --> 00:39:54,124 WE FOUND PIECES, BUT NOT BODIES. THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I EVER SPOKE OF MY EXPERIENCES AT 9/11. 1390 00:39:54,126 --> 00:39:56,092 THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I EVER SPOKE OF MY EXPERIENCES AT 9/11. I FOUND IT THERAPEUTIC. 1391 00:39:56,094 --> 00:39:56,860 SPOKE OF MY EXPERIENCES AT 9/11. I FOUND IT THERAPEUTIC. >> Pelley: HOW MANY YEARS WAS IT 1392 00:39:56,862 --> 00:40:00,563 I FOUND IT THERAPEUTIC. >> Pelley: HOW MANY YEARS WAS IT THAT YOU DIDN'T TALK ABOUT 9/11? 1393 00:40:00,565 --> 00:40:02,165 >> Pelley: HOW MANY YEARS WAS IT THAT YOU DIDN'T TALK ABOUT 9/11? >> Gallagher: SEVEN YEARS. 1394 00:40:02,167 --> 00:40:03,032 THAT YOU DIDN'T TALK ABOUT 9/11? >> Gallagher: SEVEN YEARS. >> Pelley: WHY? 1395 00:40:03,034 --> 00:40:04,167 >> Gallagher: SEVEN YEARS. >> Pelley: WHY? >> Gallagher: I DIDN'T WANT TO 1396 00:40:04,169 --> 00:40:04,801 >> Pelley: WHY? >> Gallagher: I DIDN'T WANT TO REPLAY IT AND I DIDN'T WANT 1397 00:40:04,803 --> 00:40:06,269 >> Gallagher: I DIDN'T WANT TO REPLAY IT AND I DIDN'T WANT TO... YOU KNOW, I LIVED IT. 1398 00:40:06,271 --> 00:40:07,470 REPLAY IT AND I DIDN'T WANT TO... YOU KNOW, I LIVED IT. I DIDN'T WANT TO RELIVE IT. 1399 00:40:07,472 --> 00:40:08,271 TO... YOU KNOW, I LIVED IT. I DIDN'T WANT TO RELIVE IT. >> Christine Famiglietti: I 1400 00:40:08,273 --> 00:40:09,139 I DIDN'T WANT TO RELIVE IT. >> Christine Famiglietti: I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS A SUCH A 1401 00:40:09,141 --> 00:40:09,939 >> Christine Famiglietti: I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS A SUCH A GREAT IDEA, BECAUSE I THINK A 1402 00:40:09,941 --> 00:40:12,142 DIDN'T THINK IT WAS A SUCH A GREAT IDEA, BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF US BURIED THAT DAY. 1403 00:40:12,144 --> 00:40:13,676 GREAT IDEA, BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF US BURIED THAT DAY. >> Pelley: CHRISTINE FAMIGLIETTI 1404 00:40:13,678 --> 00:40:14,878 LOT OF US BURIED THAT DAY. >> Pelley: CHRISTINE FAMIGLIETTI WAS A NEW YORK CITY COP, NOW 1405 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:15,912 >> Pelley: CHRISTINE FAMIGLIETTI WAS A NEW YORK CITY COP, NOW RETIRED. 1406 00:40:15,914 --> 00:40:17,147 WAS A NEW YORK CITY COP, NOW RETIRED. >> Famiglietti: TO REALLY BRING 1407 00:40:17,149 --> 00:40:19,983 RETIRED. >> Famiglietti: TO REALLY BRING IT UP AND HASH IT UP AND DISCUSS 1408 00:40:19,985 --> 00:40:21,918 >> Famiglietti: TO REALLY BRING IT UP AND HASH IT UP AND DISCUSS IN DEPTH WAS A LITTLE... I WAS A 1409 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,421 IT UP AND HASH IT UP AND DISCUSS IN DEPTH WAS A LITTLE... I WAS A LITTLE FEARFUL OF THAT. 1410 00:40:24,423 --> 00:40:25,021 IN DEPTH WAS A LITTLE... I WAS A LITTLE FEARFUL OF THAT. IN THE LONG RUN, I WAS GLAD I 1411 00:40:25,023 --> 00:40:25,555 LITTLE FEARFUL OF THAT. IN THE LONG RUN, I WAS GLAD I DID IT. 1412 00:40:25,557 --> 00:40:26,189 IN THE LONG RUN, I WAS GLAD I DID IT. >> Bacon: THAT'S HOW I'VE GOTTEN 1413 00:40:26,191 --> 00:40:27,657 DID IT. >> Bacon: THAT'S HOW I'VE GOTTEN THROUGH MY PTSD IS BY TALKING 1414 00:40:27,659 --> 00:40:29,492 >> Bacon: THAT'S HOW I'VE GOTTEN THROUGH MY PTSD IS BY TALKING ABOUT IT. 1415 00:40:29,494 --> 00:40:31,828 THROUGH MY PTSD IS BY TALKING ABOUT IT. AND SOMETIMES IT'S DIFFICULT, 1416 00:40:31,830 --> 00:40:33,496 ABOUT IT. AND SOMETIMES IT'S DIFFICULT, SOMETIMES IT'S NOT, BUT IT'S 1417 00:40:33,498 --> 00:40:36,232 AND SOMETIMES IT'S DIFFICULT, SOMETIMES IT'S NOT, BUT IT'S HELPED ME A GREAT DEAL TALKING 1418 00:40:36,234 --> 00:40:37,467 SOMETIMES IT'S NOT, BUT IT'S HELPED ME A GREAT DEAL TALKING ABOUT IT; YOU KNOW, HELPS ME 1419 00:40:37,469 --> 00:40:39,202 HELPED ME A GREAT DEAL TALKING ABOUT IT; YOU KNOW, HELPS ME SLEEP AT NIGHT. 1420 00:40:39,204 --> 00:40:40,737 ABOUT IT; YOU KNOW, HELPS ME SLEEP AT NIGHT. >> Pelley: I THINK A LOT OF 1421 00:40:40,739 --> 00:40:42,138 SLEEP AT NIGHT. >> Pelley: I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS AT HOME WOULD LIKE TO 1422 00:40:42,140 --> 00:40:43,640 >> Pelley: I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS AT HOME WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, AFTER TEN YEARS, WOULD YOU 1423 00:40:43,642 --> 00:40:45,341 FOLKS AT HOME WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, AFTER TEN YEARS, WOULD YOU CONSIDER... IN TERMS OF THEIR 1424 00:40:45,343 --> 00:40:47,310 KNOW, AFTER TEN YEARS, WOULD YOU CONSIDER... IN TERMS OF THEIR MENTAL HEALTH, WOULD YOU 1425 00:40:47,312 --> 00:40:50,680 CONSIDER... IN TERMS OF THEIR MENTAL HEALTH, WOULD YOU CONSIDER A LOT OF THESE PATIENTS 1426 00:40:50,682 --> 00:40:53,216 MENTAL HEALTH, WOULD YOU CONSIDER A LOT OF THESE PATIENTS TO BE BETTER? 1427 00:40:53,218 --> 00:40:54,617 CONSIDER A LOT OF THESE PATIENTS TO BE BETTER? >> Luft: I DO BELIEVE THAT THEY 1428 00:40:54,619 --> 00:40:58,655 TO BE BETTER? >> Luft: I DO BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE BETTER FROM THE POINT OF 1429 00:40:58,657 --> 00:41:00,723 >> Luft: I DO BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE BETTER FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF MOVING ON WITH THEIR 1430 00:41:00,725 --> 00:41:01,491 ARE BETTER FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF MOVING ON WITH THEIR LIVES AND BE... HAVING BECOME 1431 00:41:01,493 --> 00:41:03,927 VIEW OF MOVING ON WITH THEIR LIVES AND BE... HAVING BECOME MUCH MORE ADAPTABLE. 1432 00:41:03,929 --> 00:41:05,061 LIVES AND BE... HAVING BECOME MUCH MORE ADAPTABLE. BUT I DON'T THINK THEY EVER LET 1433 00:41:05,063 --> 00:41:06,663 MUCH MORE ADAPTABLE. BUT I DON'T THINK THEY EVER LET IT... LEAVE IT BEHIND. 1434 00:41:06,665 --> 00:41:07,997 BUT I DON'T THINK THEY EVER LET IT... LEAVE IT BEHIND. IT'S A CONSTANT PART OF THEIR 1435 00:41:07,999 --> 00:41:09,199 IT... LEAVE IT BEHIND. IT'S A CONSTANT PART OF THEIR LIFE. 1436 00:41:09,201 --> 00:41:10,433 IT'S A CONSTANT PART OF THEIR LIFE. I THINK THAT THAT'S TRUE FOR ANY 1437 00:41:10,435 --> 00:41:12,769 LIFE. I THINK THAT THAT'S TRUE FOR ANY GREAT EVENT THAT OCCURS, BUT 1438 00:41:12,771 --> 00:41:14,804 I THINK THAT THAT'S TRUE FOR ANY GREAT EVENT THAT OCCURS, BUT ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR THIS EVENT, 1439 00:41:14,806 --> 00:41:16,239 GREAT EVENT THAT OCCURS, BUT ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR THIS EVENT, WHICH WAS ETCHED INTO THEIR 1440 00:41:16,241 --> 00:41:18,208 ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR THIS EVENT, WHICH WAS ETCHED INTO THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS. 1441 00:41:18,210 --> 00:41:19,976 WHICH WAS ETCHED INTO THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS. >> Pelley: DR. LUFT'S INTERVIEWS 1442 00:41:19,978 --> 00:41:21,678 CONSCIOUSNESS. >> Pelley: DR. LUFT'S INTERVIEWS ARE NOW A DOCUMENTARY, AND ALSO 1443 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,279 >> Pelley: DR. LUFT'S INTERVIEWS ARE NOW A DOCUMENTARY, AND ALSO A BOOK CALLED "WE'RE NOT 1444 00:41:23,281 --> 00:41:25,415 ARE NOW A DOCUMENTARY, AND ALSO A BOOK CALLED "WE'RE NOT LEAVING," THE MEMORABLE QUOTE 1445 00:41:25,417 --> 00:41:27,050 A BOOK CALLED "WE'RE NOT LEAVING," THE MEMORABLE QUOTE FROM OFFICER CAROL PAUKNER TO 1446 00:41:27,052 --> 00:41:28,184 LEAVING," THE MEMORABLE QUOTE FROM OFFICER CAROL PAUKNER TO THAT FBI AGENT WHO HAD URGED HER 1447 00:41:28,186 --> 00:41:30,620 FROM OFFICER CAROL PAUKNER TO THAT FBI AGENT WHO HAD URGED HER TO RUN. 1448 00:41:30,622 --> 00:41:31,488 THAT FBI AGENT WHO HAD URGED HER TO RUN. THE PROFITS WILL GO TO 1449 00:41:31,490 --> 00:41:32,722 TO RUN. THE PROFITS WILL GO TO SCHOLARSHIPS AND JOB TRAINING 1450 00:41:32,724 --> 00:41:33,990 THE PROFITS WILL GO TO SCHOLARSHIPS AND JOB TRAINING FOR THE RESPONDERS AND THEIR 1451 00:41:33,992 --> 00:41:35,592 SCHOLARSHIPS AND JOB TRAINING FOR THE RESPONDERS AND THEIR FAMILIES. 1452 00:41:35,594 --> 00:41:36,759 FOR THE RESPONDERS AND THEIR FAMILIES. JOHN FEAL WAS A DEMOLITION 1453 00:41:36,761 --> 00:41:38,862 FAMILIES. JOHN FEAL WAS A DEMOLITION EXPERT WHO HELPED MOVE THE 1454 00:41:38,864 --> 00:41:41,464 JOHN FEAL WAS A DEMOLITION EXPERT WHO HELPED MOVE THE WRECKAGE. 1455 00:41:41,466 --> 00:41:42,198 EXPERT WHO HELPED MOVE THE WRECKAGE. >> John Feal: THESE MEN AND 1456 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:42,966 WRECKAGE. >> John Feal: THESE MEN AND WOMEN TO THE LEFT AND RIGHT OF 1457 00:41:42,968 --> 00:41:43,566 >> John Feal: THESE MEN AND WOMEN TO THE LEFT AND RIGHT OF ME AND BEHIND ME, THEY'RE THE 1458 00:41:43,568 --> 00:41:44,200 WOMEN TO THE LEFT AND RIGHT OF ME AND BEHIND ME, THEY'RE THE BEST OF THE BEST OF WHAT AMERICA 1459 00:41:44,202 --> 00:41:47,203 ME AND BEHIND ME, THEY'RE THE BEST OF THE BEST OF WHAT AMERICA OFFERED TEN YEARS AGO. 1460 00:41:47,205 --> 00:41:49,138 BEST OF THE BEST OF WHAT AMERICA OFFERED TEN YEARS AGO. WE CAN'T CHANGE HISTORY, AND 1461 00:41:49,140 --> 00:41:50,540 OFFERED TEN YEARS AGO. WE CAN'T CHANGE HISTORY, AND THROUGH THEIR EYES, THEY'RE 1462 00:41:50,542 --> 00:41:52,442 WE CAN'T CHANGE HISTORY, AND THROUGH THEIR EYES, THEY'RE TELLING AMERICA WHAT THEY SEEN, 1463 00:41:52,444 --> 00:41:53,543 THROUGH THEIR EYES, THEY'RE TELLING AMERICA WHAT THEY SEEN, WHAT THEY DID, AND WHAT THEY'RE 1464 00:41:53,545 --> 00:41:55,578 TELLING AMERICA WHAT THEY SEEN, WHAT THEY DID, AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH TEN YEARS LATER. 1465 00:41:55,580 --> 00:41:56,946 WHAT THEY DID, AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH TEN YEARS LATER. AND... AND THAT IS PRICELESS. 1466 00:41:56,948 --> 00:41:57,547 GOING THROUGH TEN YEARS LATER. AND... AND THAT IS PRICELESS. >> Pelley: NOW, THE LIBRARY OF 1467 00:41:57,549 --> 00:41:59,182 AND... AND THAT IS PRICELESS. >> Pelley: NOW, THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS IS LOOKING INTO ADDING 1468 00:41:59,184 --> 00:42:00,650 >> Pelley: NOW, THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS IS LOOKING INTO ADDING THE INTERVIEWS TO ITS PERMANENT 1469 00:42:00,652 --> 00:42:02,952 CONGRESS IS LOOKING INTO ADDING THE INTERVIEWS TO ITS PERMANENT COLLECTION, TO BE KEPT FOR ALL 1470 00:42:02,954 --> 00:42:04,521 THE INTERVIEWS TO ITS PERMANENT COLLECTION, TO BE KEPT FOR ALL TIME SO THAT GENERATIONS CAN 1471 00:42:04,523 --> 00:42:06,890 COLLECTION, TO BE KEPT FOR ALL TIME SO THAT GENERATIONS CAN HEAR THE UNEDITED, UNVARNISHED 1472 00:42:06,892 --> 00:42:08,291 TIME SO THAT GENERATIONS CAN HEAR THE UNEDITED, UNVARNISHED REALITY AS EXPERIENCED BY THE 1473 00:42:08,293 --> 00:42:11,861 HEAR THE UNEDITED, UNVARNISHED REALITY AS EXPERIENCED BY THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE. 1474 00:42:11,863 --> 00:42:12,629 REALITY AS EXPERIENCED BY THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE. >> Fischer: ONE THING I WANT TO 1475 00:42:12,631 --> 00:42:13,863 PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE. >> Fischer: ONE THING I WANT TO SAY, THE REAL HEROES OUT OF THIS 1476 00:42:13,865 --> 00:42:15,965 >> Fischer: ONE THING I WANT TO SAY, THE REAL HEROES OUT OF THIS STUFF ARE DEAD. 1477 00:42:15,967 --> 00:42:16,499 SAY, THE REAL HEROES OUT OF THIS STUFF ARE DEAD. >> Paukner: THANK YOU. 1478 00:42:16,501 --> 00:42:17,200 STUFF ARE DEAD. >> Paukner: THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY. 1479 00:42:17,202 --> 00:42:17,934 >> Paukner: THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY. >> Familglietti: ABSOLUTELY. 1480 00:42:17,936 --> 00:42:20,069 ABSOLUTELY. >> Familglietti: ABSOLUTELY. >> Fischer: THEY'RE NOT HERE. 1481 00:42:20,071 --> 00:42:20,637 >> Familglietti: ABSOLUTELY. >> Fischer: THEY'RE NOT HERE. NOBODY HERE IS... IS A HERO. 1482 00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:21,271 >> Fischer: THEY'RE NOT HERE. NOBODY HERE IS... IS A HERO. WE JUST DID WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE 1483 00:42:21,273 --> 00:42:21,738 NOBODY HERE IS... IS A HERO. WE JUST DID WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE DID. 1484 00:42:21,740 --> 00:42:24,040 WE JUST DID WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE DID. THE... THE TRUE HEROES ARE 1485 00:42:24,042 --> 00:42:25,241 DID. THE... THE TRUE HEROES ARE PEOPLE WHO WENT INTO THOSE 1486 00:42:25,243 --> 00:42:27,076 THE... THE TRUE HEROES ARE PEOPLE WHO WENT INTO THOSE BUILDINGS AND THEY NEVER MADE IT 1487 00:42:27,078 --> 00:42:28,711 PEOPLE WHO WENT INTO THOSE BUILDINGS AND THEY NEVER MADE IT OUT. 1488 00:42:30,681 --> 00:42:39,956 >> GO TO 60minutesovertime.com TO WATCH DR. LUFT'S EXTRAORDINARY INTERVIEWS WITH 1489 00:42:39,958 --> 00:42:41,457 TO WATCH DR. LUFT'S EXTRAORDINARY INTERVIEWS WITH >> Pelley: I'M SCOTT PELLEY. 1490 00:42:41,459 --> 00:42:43,192 EXTRAORDINARY INTERVIEWS WITH >> Pelley: I'M SCOTT PELLEY. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH 1491 00:42:43,194 --> 00:42:45,061 >> Pelley: I'M SCOTT PELLEY. WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES." 1492 00:42:45,063 --> 00:42:46,963 WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES." JUST AHEAD ON CBS, ROBERT 1493 00:42:46,965 --> 00:42:48,765 ANOTHER EDITION OF "60 MINUTES." JUST AHEAD ON CBS, ROBERT De NIRO HOSTS "9/11: TEN YEARS 1494 00:42:48,767 --> 00:42:50,800 JUST AHEAD ON CBS, ROBERT De NIRO HOSTS "9/11: TEN YEARS LATER," AN UPDATE OF THE AWARD- 1495 00:42:50,802 --> 00:42:53,102 De NIRO HOSTS "9/11: TEN YEARS LATER," AN UPDATE OF THE AWARD- WINNING FILM WHICH, WITH THE 1496 00:42:53,104 --> 00:42:54,203 LATER," AN UPDATE OF THE AWARD- WINNING FILM WHICH, WITH THE ONLY CAMERAS INSIDE THE WORLD 1497 00:42:54,205 --> 00:42:55,605 WINNING FILM WHICH, WITH THE ONLY CAMERAS INSIDE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DURING THE ATTACKS, 1498 00:42:55,607 --> 00:42:57,407 ONLY CAMERAS INSIDE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DURING THE ATTACKS, REMAINS ONE OF THE MOST 1499 00:42:57,409 --> 00:42:59,976 TRADE CENTER DURING THE ATTACKS, REMAINS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT HISTORIC RECORDS OF 1500 00:42:59,978 --> 00:43:02,345 REMAINS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT HISTORIC RECORDS OF THE TRAGEDY AND THE HEROISM OF 1501 00:43:02,347 --> 00:43:03,512 IMPORTANT HISTORIC RECORDS OF THE TRAGEDY AND THE HEROISM OF THAT DAY.